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Whos really working on the water problem?

Thu, 17 Jul 2008 09:27:11 -0700

Who is really working on the water problem? Just cutting back on water isn't going to fix the water problem. Years have gone by and no one has really done much about taking care of the real water problem and that is putting water back in the aquifer. Water has passed this valley by and we paid for it but didn't get it, why? Because no storage area ready for the water, so our aquifer stays in overdraft while we suck out more and more water. At least cutting back on the amount that we take out helps slow down the falling water supply but it sure isn't going to stop the problem. A water treatment plant that will treat sewage water to the level you can drink and then use it to recharge will work. Taking water that is reclaimed but not treated to the right level of treatment can hurt our water supply. We also have areas that wells have been capped because of nitrate and others because of arsenic along with other things that shouldn't be in our drinking water. Water has been wasted for years flowing out to the dry lake at Edwards Air Force Base to just evaporated away. What a waste of good water. Some people talk about water to tap and every one says sewer water in our drinking water? Friends when people tell you that isn't happening now they are lying to you. Using reclaimed sewer water to water crops with is toilet to the tap water. That water finds its way down to the aquifer, it might take10 years or more but around 30% enters the aquifer. Septic systems and that water also makes its way down to the aquifer. Some of the wells in the valley are capped right now because of septic systems.The nitrates they have placed in the aquifer in the area of the septic tanks. This is toilet to the tap with water not being treated at all. So who is working on the water problem in the valley?

What we need in a newspaper in the valley

Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:05:49 -0700

The Voice of the Antelope Valley A new beginning in the Antelope Valley by the new birth of the peoples newspaper, a newspaper where people that live in the valley make the news. A newspaper where both sides of a story can be heard and you the reader have the choice of which to believe or not. The Voice of the Antelope Valley news within the Antelope Valley where you are the news and the people worth reading about. Stories about crime and the cause of it, written by people that live here, work here or have a businesses here or both. What can we as citizens do to help stop the crime and have peace in the valley. Stories about new businesses and old business that are here and what they have to offer. Stories about our city hall�s in both towns Palmdale and Lancaster, interviews with people we voted for and the job they are doing. Plans they are thinking of and where they would like to see each city head for. What the city plans for the future and are those the same plans you would like to see. Questions and answers from the citizen of both cities asking city hall and their answers to those questions. Where will the Palmdale Airport lead us and will the Fox Field Airport become the golden egg of the valley or will it be Palmdale Airport. Stories about our water, just how safe is it and how much do we really have? Just a few of the stories that the Voice of the Antelope Valley should cover. Now we just need some one to step up and start the new newspaper.

Oil problem, Water problem

Sun, 13 Jul 2008 15:27:12 -0700

While we worry about gasoline we really need to worry about water. Our Aquifer upper level is running dry and we are using water from the aqueduct to try and save the aquifer. But we just may have to start sucking more and more water from the supply we stll have in the middle and lower aquifer. This will cause the ground to start sinking and buildings to start cracking but what choice do we have. We have had plenty of choices before, could have been recharging the aquifer. We even allowed water that we could have had from the aqueduct pass us by, why? Because we were not ready to store the water. This is called planning and not much planning has been taking place. We allow our water when it rains to run from Littlerock Dam all the way to the dry lake bed at Edwards Air Force Base and waste away instead of recharging. Just how stupid can that be, good fresh water laying on the dry lake bed evaporating away. With the climate change taking place around the world places are becoming dryer while others are recieving more water. The ocean is rising and problems are heading our way that people just don't understand. We recieve a lot of our water from the California Aqueduct which comes from the delta. The Delta is a bunch of levees holding back the sea water and keep the fresh water and the salt water from mixing. The land in the middle of the levees is below sea level and with the climate change more rain and less snow will cause flooding and the levees will fail. When this happens sea water will rush in and the fresh water will not be freah any more. The water we need in southern California will then only come from wells out of our own Aquifer. This is the very reason we just cannot wait on the answer to this lawsuit to start recharging as fast as we can. We must recharge the upper aquifer and we better start now. This lawsuit has been going on for over 10 years. After the lawsuit is over we can go back and make everything right with every one. This valley if it continues to grow needs the water, Los Angeles needs the water, all of southern California needs the water. Every one will have to work out what is best for there area. Los Angele has the ocean and fresh water can be made from sea water and they better start building water treatment plants to start doing that very thing. All that water running down the Los Angeles river must be stopped and filtered and plumped back to be used. New houses should now be piped with gray water drain lines and filters to reuse that water to flush toilets and water lawns and plants. This is planning, will not add that much more to the underground plumbing to be ready. All sinks, showers, dishwashers and bath tubs should be piped and ready to start filtering and reusing grey water. Toilets should use air assisted flushing toilets will stop the need to double flush and use far less water. Commerical car washes should all have filtering systems to use recycled water to wash cars with. Another thing we really need to look at is the following: While every one has their eye on the need for oil we are a sleep while others are stealing us blind. One thing we just cannot live without is water. Did you know corporations are now buying up our water rights across not only America but the world. These corporate giants are buying up complete aquifers, buying up land and the water rights, buying just the water rights from farmers and the list goes on. Water that now may cost us $120 per acre foot could go to $10,000 per acre foot. Please read the following: T. Boone Pickens thinks water is the new oil�and he�s betting $100 million that he�s right. If water is the new oil, T. Boone Pickens is a modern-day John D. Rockefeller. Pickens owns more water than any other individual in the U.S. and is looking to control even more. He hopes to sell the water he already has, some 65 billion gallons a year, to Dallas, transporting it over 250 miles, 11 counties, and about 650 tracts of private property. The electricity generated by an enormous wind farm he is setting up in the Panhandle would also flow along that corridor. As far as Pickens is concerned, he could be selling wind, water, natural gas, or uranium; it�s all a matter of supply and demand. �There are people who will buy the water when they need it. And the people who have the water want to sell it. That�s the blood, guts, and feathers of the thing,� he says. Foreign Companies-Buying Up Our U. S. Water Rights, and we are worried about oil? What about the water being purchased right out from under us and know one is watching. This same water will then be sold back to us at very high rates, how much are you paying for Gasoline per gallon? You better be thinking how much per gallon we will be paying for water per gallon. These corporations are buying land and water rights in all the dry areas of this county to be sold back at very high rates and profits. This isn�t just happening here but in countries where the people can hardly by food. Now they are even losing their houses because the cannot afford the water. The water companies are foreclosing on their homes for non payment of their water bills. Water marketing meets with political approval from both conservatives and liberals and thus may represent part of a permanent change in the West�s way of life. The Global Water Crisis And The Coming Battle For The Right To Water. Its a fact that we are in a climate change and coporations are getting ready to cash in on the lack of water. Its happening across the globe and our eyes are on oil while our water is under attack.

Water water who has the water

Sat, 12 Jul 2008 10:02:24 -0700

The answer to that question is the farmer has the water. The farmer is growing crops with good clean water, while we are purchasing dirty water from the aqueduct. Some of these farmers are growing very high water crops when they could switch to lower water type of crops and still make a living. They seem to think just because the water is under them they can use all they want its theirs. But that same water flows beneath us all in what is called the aquifer. We have to pay a lot of money to buy water from the aqueduct, dirty water that you have to watch if used to recharge that it doesn't travel that fast to the aquifer. It has to take time to filter or we will be sucking up dirty water. We buy this water and then we have to store the water and then filter the water to drink. While a lot of these farmers are using good clean drinking water to water their high water use crops. We are paying right now for the water the farmers are using, we have to bring in water while they just pump away at the good clean water. We are furnishing some of them reclaimed water and that is great as long as the reclaimed water doesn't recharge our water with nitrates then we're in trouble. Palmdale is already in trouble for this very reason.

Do we have a larger problem than oil?

Mon, 07 Jul 2008 07:42:06 -0700

While every one has their eye on the need for oil we are a sleep while others are stealing us blind. One thing we just cannot live without is water. Did you know corporations are now buying up our water rights across not only America but the world. These corporate giants are buying up complete aquifers, buying up land and the water rights, buying just the water rights from farmers and the list goes on. Water that now may cost us $120 per acre foot could go to $10,000 per acre foot. Please read the following: T. Boone Pickens thinks water is the new oil�and he's betting $100 million that he's right. If water is the new oil, T. Boone Pickens is a modern-day John D. Rockefeller. Pickens owns more water than any other individual in the U.S. and is looking to control even more. He hopes to sell the water he already has, some 65 billion gallons a year, to Dallas, transporting it over 250 miles, 11 counties, and about 650 tracts of private property. The electricity generated by an enormous wind farm he is setting up in the Panhandle would also flow along that corridor. As far as Pickens is concerned, he could be selling wind, water, natural gas, or uranium; it's all a matter of supply and demand. "There are people who will buy the water when they need it. And the people who have the water want to sell it. That's the blood, guts, and feathers of the thing," he says. Foreign Companies-Buying Up Our U. S. Water Rights, and we are worried about oil? What about the water being purchased right out from under us and know one is watching. This same water will then be sold back to us at very high rates, how much are you paying for Gasoline per gallon? You better be thinking how much per gallon we will be paying for water per gallon. These corporations are buying land and water rights in all the dry areas of this county to be sold back at very high rates and profits. This isn't just happening here but in countries where the people can hardly by food. Now they are even losing their houses because the cannot afford the water. The water companies are foreclosing on their homes for non payment of their water bills. Water marketing meets with political approval from both conservatives and liberals and thus may represent part of a permanent change in the West's way of life. The Global Water Crisis And The Coming Battle For The Right To Water. Its a fact that we are in a climate change and coporations are getting ready to cash in on the lack of water. Its happening across the globe and our eyes are on oil while our water is under attack.

Failure to enforce

Sun, 06 Jul 2008 09:42:04 -0700

Did you know that the City of Lancaster by not enforcing codes, zoning and health laws have people right now sick? While others may have died from not only failing to enforce but creating some of the problem themselves? Did you know about 30 people are in this boat and why would that be? Right in their own city limits, right under their nose and nothing happened when people called in and complained,why? Are these code enforcement people still working for the city? Why? Why should a cities failure to enforce codes and laws set up to protect its citizens get off the hook? Why would a city not only get off the hook but were part of the illegal activity. How can a DA have a book of records and show the city was involved in some of the illegal activity but doesn't do anything about it? WHY?

Water or the lack of?

Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:13:27 -0700

Water the life blood of our valley

Thu, 26 Jun 2008 05:58:31 -0700

The War on Water Continues

Mon, 23 Jun 2008 17:13:21 -0700

The war of water continues

Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:03:19 -0700

How many ever thought that water in the valley would become a legal matter? Farmer against the people. The Smelt against the people and whos water is it? Not to many people really know much about where the water comes from in this valley. They turn on a tap at their home and water flows as long as they pay the water bill. Our ground water basin covers around 940 square miles. Earthquake fault lines surround the water forming what is called the Aquifer. But this valley doesn�t just have one aquifer we have three. Upper, middle and the lower aquifer. These three aquifers are separated by to most of us what we call dirt. But that dirt is made up of gravel, sand, silt and clay. This acts like a filter as the water travels into the aquifer from above or below in underground streams coming from the mountains. The problem is, not everything is filtered out and we really have to watch whats in the water that travels down to the aquifer. The aquifer is like a underground lake and lakes go dry if they are not recharged by rain. One other problem is if the upper lake or aquifer goes into over draft like our upper aquifer is now it starts caving in on itself and we start losing the storage that is much needed to make sure this valley continues to have water. Being in over draft does not mean the valley is out of water or will run out any time soon. We do have the middle and the lower aquifers, but we must recharge the upper aquifer or lose it. This can also cause subsidence and it already has. By 1992 caused by over pumping more than 292 square miles of the Antelope Valley had subsided more than one foot. This reduced the storage of the upper aquifer by 50,000 acre feet and we will never get it back. The people and federal judges are more worried about a fish called a smelt than losing an aquifer that can�t be reclaimed after we lose it. But thats OK it only supplies water for humans and not fish. Fish seem to be more important than we are. The other fact is our leaders around here for years haven�t taken care of the recharging of the aquifer. They haven�t prepared to even be really to recharge. Now they are working on recharging after we have all really lost over 50,000 acre feet of storage. We have paid for water in the aqueduct only to have it run right on by us because we didn�t have any where to put the water. You and I paid for water that just passed us by. This is the very reason we need the right people running the water district and we just don�t have it. I guess we need and oversight committee watching over every form of our local government. 06/18/08 - 12:38 PM bear says... This insane. In Colorado it is illegal to collect rainwater flowing off your roof into a rain barrel because under their bizarre and arcane water laws, that water already belongs to someone else � something which takes the concept of private property to entirely new levels of psychosis. However it�s not just Colorado, all the states in the southwest have equally screwy laws. Upstream rights. Got-here-first rights. Use it or lose it threats. It�s a ball of confusion, yes it is. Now factor in the huge population growth there, coupled with increasing drought, pitting states against states, cities against agriculture, and you might have some idea of the train wreck that is coming. By Bob Morris 06/18/08 - 12:39 PM bear says... In the west, where water is scarce and there have (literally) been wars fought over it, various legal doctrines have emerged. The most common is �first in use, first in right.� In other words, if you got here first and are putting a certain amount of water to use, no one can move in next door and take it from you. An associated principle here in Utah is that water belongs to the people as a whole (i.e. the State). Thus if you�re NOT using your water, it eschetes to the State. One might almost call this �water socialism� since the government regulates how much you can have, and takes it away of you�re not putting it to �beneficial use.� There are idiosyncrasies that lead to waste, but on the whole, it�s a system that makes a certain kind of sense. The problem now is that new residents are moving in at a brisk pace� and why not? It�s one of the most beautiful places in the world! This creates friction between those who have water and those who need water, especially since years of drought have caused water tables to fall, and there isn�t as much water as there used to be. But there are rules in place to deal with this, rather than allowing a big free-for-all. We recognize that water is NOT infinite. Choices need to be made on what to do with the water available. By D.J. 06/18/08 - 12:41 PM bear says... Experts across [Los Angeles] concur that the conditions are ripe in southern California for the �perfect drought�. Los Angeles has recorded just 3.21 in. of rain in the year ending June 30, making it the driest year on record since 1877. According to the National Drought Mitigation Centre, southern California faces �extreme drought� this year, with no rain forecast before September. By Bob Morris 2007 06/18/08 - 12:43 PM bear says... The only local water supply in L.A. is the San Fernando Valley aquifer, which was declared a Superfund site in 1986. All other water comes from hundreds of miles away, from the Colorado River and the Sacramento Delta. A major well in the Valley aquifer has recently been shut down due to chromium 6 contamination which was probably caused by Lockheed Martin (who say they did no differently than any other company back then, and sadly, this is probably true.) If the contamination spreads, the entire aquifer could be poisoned. Not surprisingly, EPA has been asleep at the wheel, say city officials off the record. EPA dropping the ball again. By Bob Morris 06/18/08 - 12:57 PM bear says... Our water will be affected in a earthquake. The November preparedness exercise, �Golden Guardian �08,� will test the ability of emergency responders to deal with the impact of a magnitude 7.8 earthquake on the San Andreas Fault in Southern California, and is being jointly organized by the Governor�s Office of Emergency Services and the California Office of Homeland Security. The Golden Guardian exercise will occur during a week-long series of public events planned for the �Great Southern California ShakeOut.� A June 4th kick-off event is planned for the �ShakeOut� to help communities plan to respond to the risks highlighted in the Scenario. The scientific report describing the ShakeOut Scenario, jointly published by the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) and the California Geological Survey (CGS), will be released today during a Congressional hearing in Washington, D.C. The House Committee on Natural Resources, Subcommittee on Energy and Mineral Resources, led by Chairman Jim Costa (D-CA), will hold an oversight hearing on USGS efforts to prepare for future earthquakes, at 10:00 a.m. EDT in Room 1324, Longworth House Office Building Although imaginary, the Shakeout Scenario is based on scientists� best predictions of what would actually occur during and after a major earthquake on the San Andreas Fault. The Scenario outlines a hypothetical earthquake in which: The strongest shaking and greatest damage is near the stretch of the San Andreas Fault that extends through the fastest growing areas of Southern California, including the Coachella Valley, Inland Empire and Antelope Valley. At least 10 million people will be exposed to heavy shaking. California�s efforts at mitigation have concentrated on life safety and have been largely successful. Thus, in spite of the large numbers of people in highly shaken areas, deaths are estimated at only 1,800. Building types known to be vulnerable to damage and collapse, do indeed sustain major damage. All un-reinforced masonry buildings within 15 miles of the San Andreas Fault are completely destroyed. Those that are not retrofitted kill many occupants. Many other older building types without retrofitting contribute to over $33 billion in damage to buildings. The fault offsets all lifelines crossing into Southern California at Cajon Pass (Interstate 15), San Gorgonio Pass (Interstate 10) and along Route 14, including pipelines, power lines, roads, railways, telecommunications and aqueducts. Strong shaking continues in downtown Los Angeles for 55 seconds � nearly 8 times longer than in the Northridge Earthquake The prolonged, strong shaking heavily damages and sometimes collapses hundreds of old brick buildings, thousands of older commercial and industrial concrete buildings, many wood-frame buildings, and even a few, high-rise steel buildings. Over 600,000 buildings suffer at least some damage that causes tens of thousands of injuries and hundreds of deaths, and leaves many thousands of people without homes or jobs. Fire doubles the fatalities and economic losses. Around Southern California, there will be 1,600 fires started large enough to warrant a 911 call, and some fires merge into conflagrations that burn hundreds of city blocks. Assuming no Santa Ana winds, the models still indicate a further $65 billion in direct losses and $22 billion in indirect losses from the fires. Nearly two thirds of the hospital beds are non-functional in Los Angeles, Orange, Riverside, and San Bernardino counties. At the same time, 50,000 people will seek treatment at emergency rooms. Thanks to a $6 billion investment in seismic safety, the State highway system fares well. However, although collapse is avoided, some bridges are non-functional so that much of the highway is not passable on the day of the event. The long duration of shaking takes a greater toll on bridges and overpasses under the jurisdiction of cities and counties where the retrofitting processes are not complete or have not begun. The largest long-term economic disruption comes from damage to the water distribution system. Damage to this system will be so extensive that some areas will have to replace the whole system, and some buildings will be without water for as long as 6 months. The direct and indirect business interruption costs attributed to the lack of water will be $50 billion. Most of the damage is predictable and much is preventable. Individuals can protect themselves and help their community by: - Storing more water than they already have - Keeping a fire extinguisher and knowing how to use it. 06/18/08 - 05:01 PM bear says... A recall is taking place to recall people on the Palmdale water district and we need help getting petitions signed. We only have a certain amount of time to get this don�t. I know PK will probably want to help, how many others? 06/18/08 - 05:15 PM mvrwc says... are the signatures to serve the board members? (first step) or are you collecting signatures to place the recall on the ballot 06/18/08 - 05:22 PM bear says... We are wanting to recall Storm, Gomez, and Wells. 06/18/08 - 05:28 PM bear says... MVRWC-yes�if we collect the necessary 7100 signatures it would force an election, the election would be two things, it would have a question of do you want to recall and then another if you voted yes, who do you want to replace them. 06/18/08 - 05:29 PM bear says... I�m sure PK will get a lot of these signatures, she knows a lot of people. 06/18/08 - 05:45 PM mvrwc says... what is the deadline to collect the signatures? who is the point of contact on the effort? 06/18/08 - 05:49 PM bear says... we have until September 11th 06/18/08 - 05:58 PM mvrwc says... �we� as in you are part of the main effort? (delete comment | send private message ) 06/18/08 - 06:05 PM bear says... Every one signing the petition is part of the recall. 06/19/08 - 12:38 AM unibrowser says... It seems like the recall is falling flat on its face! What is the purpose of this recall anyway? Is it to put the incompetent boobs back in power that sat on their cans and fiddled while Rome burned? Although I live in Lancaster I am a member of the Fin and Feather Club and can see what�s going on. Palmdale Water District had become a bunch of little kingdoms where there was no real management. I understand that the IT systems were so screwed up a ten-year-old could break in and steal information. No matter what the recaller�s say, this problem was not even looked at until Storm came to the board. The financial systems were so bad that years of unpaid water fees were never paid that amounted in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Who would these goofballs bring back? Ron Cunningham This big financial genius was forced to retire from AVTA because he overlooked a million dollars that Lancaster failed to pay to the agency. How about Gordon Dexter? Gee should this guy be playing a horn or what. This water expert overlooked the fact that a consultant was suggesting you guys put treated sewage into the gravel pits. In other words, toilet to tap! He even said it was toilet to tap himself. This was the guy in charge of the water resources committee. Whoop-dee-do! Who is this Bear? Dexter, Cunningham or is it Laura? Ya�lls recall is a farce. Now I can sit back and watch you get apoplectic, Ha! Farewell, Unibrowser PS: I think bear and mvrwc is the same person. 11 postings and its 2 (not counting me) or one person talking to themselves, Ah ah, ha, ha, ha! 06/19/08 - 06:00 AM bear says... I think unibrowser just happens to be Jeff Storm and be ready Jeff to be recalled. Oh Jeff by the way the recall is just starting, watch the storm move in on you Jeff. We have people at the Palmdale water district that don�t have a clue about water and these are the people taking care of our water? Look who now sits in the head seat calling the moves, Bob Toone, do you really think he knows much about water? These people are all being placed with the help of our mayor Jim Ledford with the backing of the unions. The union had a big part in putting Jeff Storm in place and even with them behind him he didn�t win by much. These people now running things have to hire outside consultants to even have some type of clue to what is going on with the water they are in charge of. Mr. Storm works in Aerospace and owns a gun shop, what he knows best is being a member of the fin and feather club and he worries about the water to hunt ducks on. He ask how about Gordon Dexter, well how about Gordon Dexter? Gordon Dexter works for the Metropolitan water district of southern california as treatment operations team manager. Gee Gordon works in water and treatment is a very big issue here in the valley. I wonder just how much more Gordon Dexter knows about water compared to the Areospace worker Jeff Storm or should I say unibrower. Don�t you just love it when unibrowser known as Jeff Storm comes on here and trys to pat himself on the back. Gordon Dexter was never for toilet to the tap, but I believe Mayor Ledford was. The plain and simple fact is we do have to come up with a way to reuse water and have it treated in such away that one day it can be used for taking care of the farming needs. 06/19/08 - 06:22 AM bear says... This is what was said about the man the Palmdale water district got rid of. Dennis LaMoreaux was the general manager of the Palmdale water district. I had a meeting with him along with Ray Cunneff and found the man to know what he was talking about. To bad he was let go since he did know about the water and even the problems this valley is going through with the lawsuits on who owns the water rights. Director Negaard stated that no action is required on this item and then stated that he appreciates the District�s growth over the last ten years and that the District has the best General Manager in the Antelope Valley. Director Cunningham then stated that one of the things he appreciates the most about General Manager LaMoreaux is that when there has been an issue he is not afraid to address it by coming up with the best possible solution for the District; that the District is by far better off under his management; and that we have a very good General Manager. Director Sarna then stated that she appreciates that whenever she has a question General Manager LaMoreaux presents a logical answer; that he is very well organized; and that our rate payers are very well served. 06/19/08 - 07:01 AM bear says... This law seems like it should be changed, water is the life blood, if we run out of water we die. The Rule of Capture provides each landowner the ability to capture as much groundwater as they can put to a beneficial use, but they are not guaranteed any set amount of water. As a result, well-owners are not liable to other landowners for damaging their wells or taking water from beneath their land. The Rule of Capture allows capture of groundwater only to the extent the use is beneficial and not malicious. The advantage of this system is that it encourages economic development and maximum utilization of the resources. Another advantage of this system is that it leads to minimal government involvement in the operations of water wells. The primary disadvantage of this system is the potential for overproduction of the aquifer system that may result when each landowner attempts to protect the water right by drilling bigger, deeper wells. Because no landowner is given a quantifiable or set amount of production capacity, all landowners are encouraged to capture as much water as they can as quickly as they can. 06/19/08 - 07:09 AM bear says... I believe this is the law in California The correlative rights doctrine is a legal doctrine limiting the rights of landowners to a common source of groundwater (such as an aquifer) to a reasonable share, typically based on the amount of land owned by each on the surface above. 06/19/08 - 07:15 AM bear says... Western Correlative Rights. The California doctrine of correlative rights also initially developed in the 19th century but has continued to develop. Under the correlative rights doctrine, if the ground water supply is inadequate to meet the needs of all users, each user can be judicially required to proportionally reduce use until the overdraft is ended. The policy significance of correlative rights is that each well owner is treated as having an equal right to ground water regardless of when first use was initiated. The correlative rights doctrine is part of the ground water jurisprudence of California and Nebraska, although its sharing feature has been incorporated into the ground water depletion statutes of a few other western states. 06/19/08 - 07:32 AM bear says... Attached to this research and proposal is the opinion of the court in the appeal of Allegretti Farms versus Imperial County. In general, the County sought to limit the farm�s annual extractions to a �reasonable and beneficial� amount. The County set 12,000 Acre Feet as the upper limit for the 2,400 Acre Farm. The owner objected and brought the case to the Supreme Court of the United States. Imperial County prevailed in its right to set limits to groundwater extractions. Therefore, it provides one of the most revealing sets of arguments pro and con for reasonable regulation to achieve reasonable and beneficial use. The BWD, under state law, has the same powers allowing it to pass and then enforce a Groundwater Sustainability Ordinance. Another excellent source of how to achieve sustainability in Borrego Springs is the three page white paper by Steven Smiley, �A Proposed Agricultural Water Use Reduction Program�. Written in September, 2005, it provides a number of innovative ideas about crop alterations leading to demand reduction of agriculture, the source of greatest water consumption of water in Borrego. It is the contention of this author and others that there is an economic and cultural role for agriculture in Borrego. It must be consistent with Safe Yield. Crop types in the future cannot be colossal consumers of water because every acre of importation or local replenishment will be costly. The management of this cost depends on rational and innovative crop selection for the future. The prosperity of the farmer depends on shifting to water wise crops. Steven Smiley�s White Paper shows how. 06/19/08 - 07:33 AM bear says... California Groundwater Law Supporting a Groundwater Sustainability Ordinance Written by Lane Sharman 06/19/08 - 04:48 PM perplexed says... I for one at thrilled that I finally see something about the water district recall. I have waited and waited as have many other friends and neighbors since January. I have read about the three fools at the water district and am appalled at their lack of caring and responsibility with my money and the future of my water. These men Gomez, Storm, and Wells have spent our money recklessly. They travel to conferences (vacations!!!), hire consultants to do their work, they paid to get rid of the general manager who was highly qualified and well repected, and hired on their political cronie Bob Toone. Last week I read they are looking to replace the 20 year manager with someone new for 215 thousand dollars a year! You have got to be kidding! They paid off the old manager, pay Toone $150 dollars an hour, and raise the pay for an inexperienced person to come in and take the job. What a waste. It should be crime. I can only imagine that they all sit arouund and twiddle their thumbs. They know NOTHING about water. I sent in my customer satisfaction survey telling them exactly what I thought of them. How come I have not seen the results of that anywhere?? These men need to get out of the water district. Where are you collecting signatures? 06/19/08 - 09:08 PM unibrowser says... Ah Perplexed, who�s this Raul, Gordon, Norman (double ha). These postings are as phony as this goofy recall. The melodramatic calls from the recall gang is about as silly as anything I�ve seen yet. Let�s see, the three fools pushed through fixes for the computer systems. The three fools pushed through the changes streamlining the engineering department. The three fools are pushing through changes in the finance system. Yep, Yep, Yep, those three fools if left alone, we might actually see real customer service! I�ve heard about what happens when people try to call, how you�re put on hold and the call is lost before anyone picks-up. Let�s see, and the whole thing against being part of state-wide organizations, going to legislative sessions, sitting in seminars. Wow! What a vacation! I can see it now! Bathing in the light of a slide presentation and eating rubber chicken. Boy is that some vacation. Yeah! Raul, should get over it. He�s not the boss anymore. Just because some people can�t or won�t get off their big lazy butts and do something constructive, don�t criticize those who do. Just like you-ins, that recall is going nowhere. Ah, ha, ha, ha! Sincerely Unibrowser PS: If ya�ll want to tell us what your constructive ideas are, I might listen to you. PSS: I�m not one of the directors, can you guess who I am? Har! 06/19/08 - 09:27 PM bear says... You are Jeff Storm and you know that, don�t you unibrower. The water department got rid of the wrong people. 06/19/08 - 10:06 PM Stormy says... Hi, I was informed by Unibrowser that you thought he was me. I�ve never hid behind pseudonyms. You got the wrong guy. Now, if you would like to speak to me yourself, you�ll find I�m not the dummy you think I am. As far as Mr. Lamoreaux is concerned, he worked there at the pleasure of the board of directors and I and other board members had no confidence in him. Plain and simple Larry. I agree with Unibrowser on the substance of what he said, but maybe not the manner. There were major problems being hid from the board and I don�t think he intentionally did so; he just kept these problems to himself. Not good when you�re working for a board of directors. We also found many problems with customer service like the telephone hell that is still a little bit of a problem, but it is being addressed. The engineering department had a lot of problems but much of this has been fixed now. These things weren�t even on the radar under past administrations. And let�s look at the finance computer issues Larry. Ron Cunningham missed the fact that the district was not making collections and he set himself up as a financial expert. We still don�t have an accounting of haw much money has been lost forever. Dennis claimed he was looking into it, but why did it take 7 YEARS to find out about it. As a Director, it is MY responsibility to oversee a GM. I need someone who has the business acumen and who I can trust to do the job. I didn�t have that. In my opinion, the district outgrew the GM and we need someone who can handle the changes that are needed. I�ll gladly meet you anytime you want and we can discuss water down at the district. Thanks for listening. Stormy 06/19/08 - 10:09 PM unibrowser says... Hellllo Stormy See, I told you they thought you were me! Also, the recall is dead. get over it. Adios Unibrowser 06/20/08 - 07:52 AM bear says... Jeff, you better go back and check what the board of directors had to say about Dennis Lamoreaux,Director Negaard stated that he appreciates the District�s growth over the last ten years and that the District has the best General Manager in the Antelope Valley. Director Sarna then stated that she appreciates that whenever she has a question General Manager LaMoreaux presents a logical answer; that he is very well organized; and that our rate payers are very well served. Director Cunningham then stated that one of the things he appreciates the most about General Manager LaMoreaux is that when there has been an issue he is not afraid to address it by coming up with the best possible solution for the District;that the District is by far better off under his management; and that we have a very good General Manager. Bob Toone being place in the water district is a joke and you Mr. Storm just how much do you know about water? Ducks float on it don�t they Jeff? Even with the backing of Jim Ledford and the unions you only won by 97 votes. Doesn�t say much to me. Gordon Dexter knows more about the water around here, did you watch him on channel 3 yesterday talking about the water problem? I wonder why they didn�t ask any one from the Palmdale Water district? Lancasters had their man there yet Channel 3 had Gordon Dexter, seems kind of funny don�t you think they had to get a man that lost to you by only 97 votes to talk instead of you. The recall isn�t dead my friend its just getting started. Palmdale wants people watching their water that know something about the water. The people that work for the Palmdale Water District want some one that they can look to for answers to water questions. The people that live in Palmdale want people running the Palmdale water district to know something about the water they drink. The three of you that are on the recall could just step down and save some time and the people of Palmdale would thank you for it. 06/20/08 - 07:54 AM bear says... By the way Unibrowser and Stormy are the same person. 06/20/08 - 08:34 AM bear says... I don�t really believe that most of the people including our officials really know the trouble we are in. We have an Aquifer that hold water probably as old as the last ice age. The aquifer itself is who knows how old. It use to have so much water that water was running out of the ground through out the valley. Then came the farmer and starting around the 20�s or 30�s water was used to grow crops and then more and more crops and more and more water was being used. In the 50�s water was flowing on crops like the water would never end. The farming took the upper aquifer down hundred�s of feet and it never came back to full ever again. In fact its in over draft and that means the aquifer is starting to close the area where water use to be stored. The storage area will never fill again, when we need water later we will not have the amount of water that now cannot be stored. Where are the meetings with our leaders of the Antelope Valley and the State and federal agencies. A federal judge will not give us all the water we need when we need it because of the smelt fish, the life of the fish means more than the lives of people. The farmers seem to think that all the water under their land only belongs to them and the hell with the communities that are now in this valley. They don�t care that the farmers are the very ones that sucked all the water out of the aquifer in the first place and has damaged it. Now they should be held to pay for a lot of the recharge. A court case has been going on for I believe around 8 years over water rights. All this going on while we lose the upper aquifer, can we really afford to lose this aquifer? I don�t thinks so and I call this and emegency. Whos getting up in arms? Whos in court with the federal government to get the pumps back on line in the Delta? Whos talking to the state and the federal government about the damage that is taking place to the aquifer and that damage can never be repaired. They talk about an endangered fish and should be talking about an endangered aquifer worth far more than the fish. They are talking about an aquifer far older than the fish. We can grow more fish but not more aquifers once they are gone they are forever. 06/20/08 - 01:24 PM lauralamoreaux says... Mr. Hobson, Thank you for bringing the water recall to the blog and thank you for understanding that Mr. Storm is not telling the truth. I won�t sit here and argue with the man, for he knows �everything�. Men like him always do. I don�t have time for him or his inaccuracies and downright lies. I see you found some comments that have been said by directors, there are many more online at the PWD website. Here is something a little bit more recent and a lot more telling of exactly what happened the night my husband was put on �administrative leave. Palmdale Water District Board Meeting December 26, 2007: Interaction between Dick Wells and Raul Figueroa on the subject of Dennis LaMoreaux�s last review. Raul Figueroa: I think all three of you need to tell us what the reason because according to Mr. Storm, all three of you signed his paper and want the removal of the general manager, yet months earlier both of you were okay with the general manager. Dick Wells: I have never given the general manager a review. For the simple reason I am unable to talk to his subordinates and I told him that at our meetings and I don�t know how you can review somebody if you can�t talk to anybody. Raul Figueroa: Wait a minute. You did not give him a positive evaluation when we all met as a board? Dick Wells: No I did not. I voted yes for him to stay on, but I never gave him a positive review, no.I never gave him any review. Raul Figueroa: Well we all voted on his review that he is doing a good job and I think that we, even, each of us have made comments that he is done a good job. Now, all of the sudden this change. After this election someone comes in, and he wants an immediate change. He hasn�t even been here a couple hours in that first meeting after he�s sworn in he wants to review the general manager. Okay. That�s fine. We told him to get all the paperwork and see what we discussed and our expectations and now this paper? And you agree to it? I think all of you need to explain why we want to get rid of our general manager. Dick Wells comments from past reviews of Dennis LaMoreaux�s job performance. September 26, 2007 President Wells then stated that General Manager LaMoreaux is doing a great job. http://www.palmdalewater.org/IS/BD/PDF/RM_MINUTES%20-%2009262007.pdf March 14, 2007 Director Godin reported that yesterday the Personnel Committee (Directors Godin and Wells) met and reviewed General Manager LaMoreaux� position; that the Committee is very satisfied with General Manager LaMoreaux�s performance and his continuing education and personal training after which President Wells reported that the full Board concurs with the Personnel Committee�s evaluation of General Manager LaMoreaux and he(LaMoreaux) is very helpful when the board needs information or guidance. http://www.palmdalewater.org/IS/BD/PDF/RM_MINUTES-03142007.pdf September 13, 2006 President Figueroa stated that he is happy with the direction in which General Manager LaMoreaux is leading the District; that we are doing great planning for the future; and that the input he receives from employees and members of the community indicates he is doing a fantastic job.Director Dexter then stated that General Manager LaMoreaux has a wealth of knowledge of the District and has a keen eye to the future in being prepared for any potential items that could come up including the potential of a high growth rate. Director Wells concurred with these comments and stated that he appreciates the wisdom of General Manager LaMoreaux, his self-evaluation sells himself short, and he truly does appreciate him. After a brief discussion, it was moved by Director Dexter, seconded by Director Wells, and unanimously carried to authorize a 5% cost of living adjustment to the salary of General Manager LaMoreaux after which President Figueroa stated that the Board is completely happy with the performance of General Manager LaMoreaux and that the District is meeting its Mission Statement because of his efforts. http://www.palmdalewater.org/IS/BD/PDF/RM_MINUTES-09132006.pdf June 26, 2006 President Figueroa reported that he evaluation of General Manager LaMoreaux was discussed in closed session pursuant to Government Code Section 54957; that the evaluation went very well; that he appreciates everything General Manager LaMoreaux does for the district; that the Board concurs; and that he is happy to see the positive direction that the District is moving towards. http://www.palmdalewater.org/IS/BD/PDF/RM_MINUTES-06282006.pdf March 22, 2006 President Figueroa stated that in closed session the Board discussed clear expectations for General Manager LaMoreaux; that the Board is happy with the District�s direction; and that General Manager is looking well into the future to ensure future water supplies. Director Wells then stated that he appreciates General Manager LaMoreaux�s wisdom and Director�s Sarna, Gomez, and Dexter concurred, and there was no action taken on this item. http://www.palmdalewater.org/IS/BD/PDF/RM_MINUTES-03222006.pdf September 19, 2005 After a brief discussion of the favorable evaluation of General Manager LaMoreaux, it was moved by Director Cunningham and seconded by Director Storm, and unanimously carried to authorize a 3% salary increase to the General Manager�s compensation. http://www.palmdalewater.org/IS/BD/PDF/RM_MINUTES-09192005.pdf March 7, 2005 Consideration and Possible Action on Evaluation of General Manager. Director Negaard stated that no action is required on this item and then stated that he appreciates the District�s growth over the last ten years and that the District has the best General Manager in the Antelope Valley. Director Cunningham then stated that one of the things he appreciates the most about General Manager LaMoreaux is that when there has been an issue he is not afraid to address it by coming up with the best possible solution for the District; that the District is by far better off under his management; and that we have a very good General Manager. Director Sarna then stated that she appreciates that whenever she has a question General Manager LaMoreaux presents a logical answer; that he is very well organized; and that our rate payers are very well served. Director Storm then thanked General Manager LaMoreaux for his help during his time on the Board and that he hopes for a good, long relationship. President Figueroa concurred with the Director�s comments and appreciated the status report included with the agenda packets. General Manager LaMoreaux thanked the Board for their comments and stated that it takes three entities to run the District being the Board, staff, and himself. http://www.palmdalewater.org/IS/BD/PDF/RM_MINUTES-03072005.pdf September 13, 2004 Director Negaard, Chairman of the Ad Hoc Personnel Committee, stated that the evaluation of General Manager LaMoreaux went very well and then moved to authorize a 3% raise for General Manager LaMoreaux. The motion was seconded by Director Cunningham and unanimously carried. http://www.palmdalewater.org/IS/BD/PDF/RM_MINUTES-09132004.PDF There are years and years of positive reviews. About 19 years worth actually. Mr. Storm cannot change history. He moved to remove my husband on the night he was being sworn in. There was an agenda, he knows it, everyone else in the valley does too. He had no �confidence� that my husband would allow him to run the place. That where he lacked confidence. He believes that the 97 vote margin he won by was a mandate by the voters to go in and run the place. That is not what a board does, he still does not get it. He never will. Laura LaMoreaux 06/20/08 - 05:52 PM perplexed says... Jeff Storm-Unibrowser (whatever) You said: �Ah Perplexed, who�s this Raul, Gordon, Norman (double ha). These postings are as phony as this goofy recall.� Sorry to inform you that I am not one of these people. My disgust for you began at church Mr. Holy and has only grown as I read your name in the paper. You have always made my stomach turn. Keep showing your arrogance and I will add more fuel to the fire. 06/21/08 - 05:02 AM Stormy says... Bear (Larry) You�ve said a lot, much of which I agree with. However, you still haven�t done the one thing necessary to make a judgment concerning whether I know anything or not. Which is to talk to me face to face? I�m not at liberty to tell you who Unibrowser is other than he tends to have bushy eyebrows and it stated as a joke. People like the pseudonyms and such, I use the nickname from my school days and I freely state who I am. I really didn�t start on this board until he told me about the goings on over here. I am willing and capable of discussing the aquifer and the over draught condition. What can and cannot realistically be done about it. In fact, why not begin a string on xerascaping? Or one on other water saving methods? There�s a lot to talk about that isn�t laced with bile. How does a civil discussion sound to you? I don�t expect you to like me, just try and have some mutual respect in these matters and don�t judge people as ignorant or fools without knowing them. And even then, I will avoid the name calling if I do think they�re crazy. Respectfully yours, Stormy (Jeff) 06/21/08 - 05:20 AM bear says... Jeff, any time you would like to meet is OK with me, I�m always open to listening. 06/21/08 - 05:38 AM Stormy says... To all, Didn�t George bush win the Presidency by winning Florida by the slimmest of margins and losing the popular vote? 97 or 9 or even one vote is enough. You all would have accepted it if it had been the other way around and Mr. Dexter had won. Again, you don�t have to like it or agree with it. The GM serves at the pleasure of the Board. A Board that is confident it has the right person for that Board to carry out its policies. It is not a civil service job which is protected from administration to administration. We don�t complain when a president or governor or other administration changes its key personnel when they come into office. You think he was great; I respectfully disagree with your assessment. It was and is my opinion that the former GM is knowledgeable about water. It had everything to do with Management issues and whether he was the right person to carry out the necessary changes. We have seen many positive changes in the water district on the management, in the finance, IT systems, engineering and soon in customer service. None of these would have taken place without changing the GM. You may not like my answer, you might even hate me, but, you are not the ones elected to serve and make these decisions. I will not support toilet to tap, i.e. putting treated sewage into the gravel pits as was suggested by previous board members. Mr. Dexter seconded that motion and chaired the committee that had oversight on water resources. Face it, I saw this as an issue and he did not. He claims de didn�t even notice that this is what the consultant intended to do. At his last Board meeting he called this �toilet to tap.� We can discuss these and other issues to your hearts desire, I just ask that you listen as well as talk. I�m looking at starting a string on xerascape gardening soon, will you join in? Best Wishes, Stormy 06/21/08 - 06:58 AM bear says... Jeff are you in the water business? How did you learn all about water being the owner of a gun shop? How did aerospace teach you about water? How did hiring a ex-city manager at the high price of $150.00 per hour help the water district? I believe Gordon Dexter is manager of one of the largest water treatment plants in California. He works with water and knows water, do you? If you claim to know so much about water why are you working in aerospace instead of water? If the manager that you fired was so bad why did you all say he was so good? Did you all lie about that when you said it? If you all know so much about water why did you hire Bob Toone that doesn�t have a clue about water at a high rate of $150.00 per hour so he could hire consultants at high rates per hour to tell him and you about water and the problems with the water? Instead of capping wells why aren�t you looking into arsenic removal systems? Whos testing the water around waste managements landfill? Whos working on water banking? Why are we letting the upper aquifer go dry when we could be letting Los Angeles store water in it while we get to keep 20% of it? Whos working with the state and federal government about the smelt and what it will do to our aquifer if we don�t get the water needed to water bank? Who is dealing with the farmer and the California doctrine of correlative rights? whos working on treating waste water to the point where it can be used to supply water to the farming instead of well water is a great idea. This is what Gordon Dexter was talking about, this isn�t toilet to the tap. This is treating the water where you could drink it yet you use it to water farms with instead. This water is then filtered again on its way back down to the aquifer. After watering with it about 30% of this water makes its way back to the aquifer over around a ten year period. We live in a desert and all ways of saving water and reusing water must be looked into. Whos making sure farmers have flow meters on their wells? Whos keeping track of how much water every one is using such as the farmer? Whos working on making all developers pay a recharge fee? Whos working on getting the federal government to pay for their share of recahrging the aquifer? Whos working with the county to make sure every one in the county including the farmers are paying a recharge fee for the amount of water they are pulling out of the ground? Whos working with the city to make sure that all commercial businesses are xerascape instead of watering so much that the water runs all over there parking lots? 06/21/08 - 07:08 AM bear says... Jeff for a gun shop owner and a aerospace worker how could you know enough about the Palmdale District water company to walk in and want to fire the director that every one said was doing a great job? I believe you had an agenda pushed by a person called Mayor Ledford. I believe the only reason you won by such a small amount was because Mayor Ledford stood behind you. Why was Mayor Ledford so much behind a gun shop owner and a aerospace worker in the first place? Maybe the mayor wanted to get rid of the manager and new what it would take to get that job done. 06/21/08 - 07:13 AM bear says... Jeff sometimes getting votes just means who are you willing to sell out to, who will put money behind you for what they will get out of it. Sometimes people that just want to get a job because they know what they are doing don�t get the votes because they don�t have as much money as others do. But it really depends on where that money comes from. 06/21/08 - 07:50 AM bear says... Jeff, you ask for a meeting and I said yes, so where and when? 06/21/08 - 12:16 PM gdexter says... Jeff Storm seems determined to continue his toilet-to-tap campaign against me, and why not? It proved to be very effective even though it lacked any basis in truth. The truth is at my second board meeting on December 19, 2005 and agenda item came before the Board for the cosideration and possible action to authorize funding a study by Wildermuth to �Investigate Potential Groundwater Recharge Projects and Requirements�. The motion to approve was by Wells, and the second by Gomez. The motion passed with the approval of the full board. The action funded a study of all potential resources for recharging our aquifer. The decision was prudent and correct. Jeff Storm labeled this as toilet-to-tap and used it against me in his campaign. His campaign literature stated that I had brought Los Angeles failed toilet to tap programs to the Antelope Valley and was experimenting with the public�s health. A review of the public record will reveal none of hos accusations are true. The Wildermuth Study was finally concluded and presented to the Board at the November 17, 2007 meeting. At this point the election was complete and although provisional ballots were still being posted it was apparent the toilet to tap strategy worked. The report Wildermuth presented was now more specific and focused on �Recycled Water Groundwater Recharge Feasability Study Antelope Valley, California�. My comments following this presentation were directed at Directors Wells and Gomez (supporters of Storm) as each praised this report and embraced the propsal to recharge the aquifer with recycled water through the gravel pits. I was shocked they did not see this as meeting the perception of toilet-to-tap that was such an effective campaign tool against me. Do I see this as Toilet-to-tap? Toilet-to-tap conjures a disturbing picture in the mind of the public. It is used as a tool to fight any number of projects with varying uses of recycled water. I reject the use of the gravel pits because of the potential to degrade our ground water supply. In that respect some could argue the report favors toilet-to-tap. My focus as a director was consistant. Set policy for the Palmdale Water District. My focus always was and remains to ensure adequate water supply while protecting the quality of our already limited resources. 06/21/08 - 12:49 PM gdexter says... It should be noted the focus of the Wildermuth report changed partially as a result of the Antelope Valley Integrated Regional Water Management Plan. PWD�s input to the plan was funding and the sharing of the efforts of Wildermuth. When potential projects were identified, listed, and prioritized in the plan, one of the potential projects was ground water recharge. The AVIRWMP process was lenghty and included many valley stakeholders including PWD. The toilet-to-tap issue developed as a campaign ploy caused considerable harm to the almost complete AVIRWMP. Despite the fact that these stakeholder partcipated every step of the way the final document signing was greatly delayed because of toilet-to-tap. With only days left on the deadline to submit the City of Palmdale and the PWD held a joint meeting. The engineering and technical experts that participated since the beginning and provide counteless public meetings and documentation, again presented the same information. As a result of that meeting suddenly Storm and his political supporters had a new understanding and voted affirmative to the AVIRWMP including the very recharge project he labeled toilet-to-tap. Unfortunately for the ratepayers of the PWD and the entire valley the AVIRWMP received no grant funding for any of our much needed projects. In an article in the Antelope Valley Press dated May 22,2008 the toilet-to-tap issue is identified as a likely reason for the denial of funding.

The water war continues

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 06:35:45 -0700

Term limits

Tue, 17 Jun 2008 13:20:18 -0700

Should Mayor Ledford be able to run for office again and have the term limits removed? I personally believe that the mayor has done a pretty good job of being mayor of Palmdale and Palmdale is doing prenty good. I don't like the Mayor trying to sell out to the unions. I don't like seeing the money he raises to run come from big union money. I believe a mayor shouldn't be affected by non union or union he or she should be for all the people not a group of people. This would be one thing I do not like about Mayor Ledford. As for term limits it should be up to the people voting if they want him back again or not. If a person is doing a good job and things seem to be moving in the right direction then they should be able to run again. The voters will tell the story if they want him back or some one new.

Isn't it time for day labor work permits?

Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:39:47 -0700

All people working as day labors should have to register with the city they are working out of. They should have a picture ID and have to show it before they are hired. Nothing wrong with some one standing by a place like home depot waiting on a job in the trade they do, other than they must be legal and registered, all others should be arrested.

What happen to the news in the valley?

Mon, 16 Jun 2008 19:04:32 -0700

Front page headlines " Whoozits: Feels just like Family: They call this news? What happen to the real news? Two women kissing thats news? that is also on the front page. I believe the Valley Press needs to go to work and look for some news, isn't it a newspaper?

The high cost of gasoline and the reason why?

Thu, 05 Jun 2008 09:35:13 -0700

Each day in America the cost of gasoline is going up. As the cost of gasoline goes up our economy is damaged more and more. People are being laid off and more and more businesses will fail. The big question is why? what has really changed, the oil is still in the same places and the cost to drill for it shouldn't have changed one bit. Have we gone to war with any one else? the answer is no. Has there been any threat to the oil fields we are buying from? the answer is no. The problem as a I see it we are to blame, we have let the environmentalist let us get caught with our pants down. We should have been drilling here in the United states long ago in all the place we have oil. We should have been building refineries and laying pipe lines to transfer the oil from the fields to the new refineries that we should have already built. We should have been using the coal we have and converting it into oil, the shale that holds oil we should have been getting to that oil. We have become a very stupid country. We buy our oil from countries that aren't our friends and we rely on them to fuel our needs which also fuels our economy. Now they have this country where they want us, we are at their mercy. Each time they raise the price per barrel of oil, I can see them with the knife in their hand sticking it right into our back. Only we can solve this problem but now it will take years to even get ready to drill, mean while this country could be in so much trouble we will wonder what in the world has gone wrong. We must demand that this country start installing the infrastructure to make this country self-sufficient. How many people said Bush is in Iraq for the oil? Well where is the oil, I just haven't heard anything about all this oil flowing in, have you. I believe Iraq owes us the oil big time, but if we started taking it, people would say that we knew it we were only in Iraq for the oil. Without the oil this country will dry up and blow away. We need those nuclear power plants that people want to stop us from building. We need the things others seem to think will harm us, but believe me they haven't seen the things that will harm us if we don't get off our asses. Start telling our government to start and start now doing the things that are needed to get the fuel this country must have to survive. Quit listening to people like Al Gore that say the sky is falling and listen to people that really know what they are talking about. Global warming is not man made, but this gasoline crisis is.