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Thursday, December 17 2009 - 11:02 AM
"Guaranteed" Bankruptcy
Talk about fear tactics. God bless Howard. God enlighten Obama.
Wonder why all the other spending Obama has that isn’t “guaranteed” to BK the country too?
The bill Obama wants is going to “force us to buy health insurance” or be fined or imprisoned where you will get free healthcare.
Vote “no” on this forcing us to enrich the CEO’s of AIG like insurance companies.
“Kill the bill.”
Randy Hall says...
By Dick Morris
A detailed analysis of the Obama health care program now before the Senate indicates that it will force big premium increases for all families especially for those under 30 years of age.
The study, by the consulting firm of Oliver Wyman, concludes that premiums for individuals will rise by $1,576 and $3,341 for families by under the bill. Young people will be hit the hardest. The study predicted that premiums for new health insurance policies purchased by the youngest third of the population would rise by 35% under the bill.
These increases will stem from the bill’s provisions that bar insurance companies from raising rates on sick people and from excluding people based on pre-existing conditions. Both of these mandates will mean higher costs for the younger and healthier population. This bill is, in effect, a tax on the young.
Nor will subsidies do much to mitigate the impact. To get a subsidy under the bill you have to earn less than about $80,000 a year (combined household income) and have spent between 2 and 10 percent of your income on premiums.
So a couple making a combined income of $40,000 would have to pay about 5% of their income: $2,000 before they could get subsidies. Those making $60,000 would have to pay about 8% of their income — $4800 – before they could get a subsidy. And those making $80,000 would have to chip in 10% of their income — $8,000 – before they would get a subsidy.
These are hefty bills for young families to bear.
So most won’t do it. The fine for failing to have health insurance is only $750. So most young people will just pay the fine and be done with it. When they get sick, they’ll get covered and the insurance company can’t charge them a higher premium than it would have charged when they were healthy. And it can’t turn them away.
So this bill is not a measure for full national health insurance coverage. At best, it’s a bill that will insure you when you are sick and make the rest of us pay the bill. And, in the meantime, you’ll have to chip in $750 a year for the privilege.
Employers, too, will find it much cheaper to pay the $750 per employee than to buy insurance.
Ironically, there is a good chance that this bill will actually increase the number of uninsured. Its ban on letting insurers raise rates on sick people will force premiums so high that many people will drop their insurance. After all, when they get sick, they can and will easily get their insurance back.
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No Spin says...
RH
The LIBS will simply toss him aside and attack him like they did Benedict Liberman when he paused.. they even want after his wife..
The Libs will claim that anyone not interested in reform does not care about sick people, children, etc… then they will “Invent” numbers that are so massaged that they are absurd to make it look like our health care system is such a disaster.. NOT true if you look at the REAL numbers…
Anyone who really cares will take ALL the facts into consideration not just the ones that fit their free health care for all bigotry..
I have NEVER agreed with Dean until now.. when a nutbag like Dean can see the problems, then you KNOW it is real..
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roxi says...
I agree with Dr. Dean – he’s right-on about how the current Senate bill being proposed is nothing but a rip-off and just a ‘gift’ to Big Pharma and the Corporate Health Care system.
The Blu-Dawgs & GOP have managed to distort the original CONCEPT of health reform and turned it into some kind of kaka nobody would vote for.
Like Bernie Sanders says, the GOP is more interested in stopping any progress in Congress and destroying the democratic process, than working FOR the people they represent….many who are people without ANY health care safety net.
They did it before during Clinton’s administration by shutting down the gov’t by refusing to vote on the budget. They’re doing it again, and obviously represent their Lobbiest – not the taxpayers.
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roxi says...
and…..LeiberBush can go to H*ll for all I care.
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Randy Hall says...
With well over half the American people not worried about healthcare, it is said that for about $30 billion we could cover those that need insurance about 12 million people. So why destroy everything that we like now to fix problems only a few face? I’d say the Republicans trying to stop this crap are doing the will of The People.
The let’s just have change for the sake of change. Even Howard Dean knows that’s not right.
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Ray Cunneff says...
But what about the 46 million Americans who had no health coverage even when the economy was booming? And what about the 14,000 today who are losing their health coverage every day due to recession layoffs?
I should add that I have come to the reluctant conclusion that the current bill, without the “public option” and expanded Medicare, is nothing more than a windfall for insurance companies and should be killed. What we need is REAL healthcare reform.
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PKShaw says...
And what about those who would rather a newer car or a bigger house instead of health insurance? What about those who are healthy and won’t care enough to buy it until they are sick?
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roxi says...
Then they can live in their new car when they get sick & can’t pay for their housing! Great idea! And, not buy in until your sick is another great plan-most likely they won’t be able to WORK while their sick-so how are they gonna pay for the health plan?
Ray is right: “I should add that I have come to the reluctant conclusion that the current bill, without the “public option” and expanded Medicare, is nothing more than a windfall for insurance companies and should be killed. What we need is REAL healthcare reform”.
BIG TIME windfall for the insurance companies – nada for the members. But, this seems to be the plan…make it so awful, so disgusting by demonstrating thru their bought-and-sold ‘reps’ in Congress JUST HOW BAAAAAAD THEY CAN BE!
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138hwy says...
damm it!!
Why is this blogsite filled with mis-information all of the time? Today, alone, laantzi states mis-information and now cineff.
“46 million Americans.” Give me a break, will ya?
At the very most it is approx. 11 million. Why don’t you just say that “there are l billion” un-insured. Same thing as saying 46 million.
This HC fiasco may pass and if it should, it will be because of out-right distortions and lies from leftists/stalinists.
And to confuse things even more, perhaps cineff does not care that half a trillion dollars will be cut from Medicare and health rationing will be instituted.
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roxi says...
Considering there’s about 300 million pop. – 46 million sounds ‘conservative’. Since so-called ‘big-gov’t’ never paid for measure D/Medicare, the hidden fraud & payout by retirees has soared. And, HC corps want more!
Let us continue the way things are, let people go bankrupt if they have no insurance or the ability to pay a huge hospital bill – after all, we have plenty of people in this country….loosing a few thru the cracks doesn’t hurt the ones who can afford it. The taxpayers can pay the bills the bankrupt citizens left behind – no problemo!
And, while we’re at it, let the Insurance Co’s nest in some backwater state that doesn’t have patient protections – so we’re all on the same page! If someone goes in for a gall bladder operation and instead they cut off their leg – so what?! That’s their problem! If a Dr. writes the wrong prescription not noticing that the drug will counteract another drug the person is taking – and it kills them – so what?!
Powers that be accelerating anti-reform could care less about the American people. It’s allll about the $$.
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Ray Cunneff says...
One out of three Americans under 65 were without health insurance at some point during 2007 and 2008, according to a report commissioned by the consumer health advocacy group Families USA. The study found that 86.7 million Americans were uninsured at one point during those years – prior to recession unemployment.
Among the report’s key findings:
• Nearly three out of four uninsured Americans were without health insurance for at least six months.
• Almost two-thirds were uninsured for nine months or more.
• Four out of five of the uninsured were in working families.
• People without health insurance are less likely to have a usual doctor and often go without screenings or preventative care.
“The huge number of people without health coverage is worse than an epidemic,” Ron Pollack, executive director of Families USA, said in a press release. “Inaction on health care reform in 2009 cannot be an option for the tens of millions of people who lack or lose health coverage each year … the cost of doing nothing is too high.”
The number of Americans without health insurance reported by Families USA is much higher than those reported by the U.S. Census Bureau. According to the census numbers, in 2007 there were 45.7 million uninsured Americans.
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No Spin says...
ray
and your 45.7 million includes:
Illegal Immigrants
People who can afford it and refuse
18-30 year olds who do not think they need it because they are immortal..
The REAL number by legitimate sources is closer to 15 million… less then 5% of the population..
So OVERHAUL the entire system for the less than 5% that need the help?
INSANITY at it’s finest…
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No Spin says...
Once again the problem is COSTS..
Tort Reform
Healthy Living Discounts
Cross State Purchases
And I do support Government help WHERE needed for the 15 Million who cannot afford it..
MAKING American citizens purchase health insurance is unconstitutional and will be tested in the courts,IF it happens,and be defeated…
BTW: The current bill TAXES us now, yet the UHC benefits do not kick in until at LEAST 2013…and that is OK with you???
Please tell me what other product or service in your lifetime you have paid for and waited 4 years to use?
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138hwy says...
dammit, AGAIN…………
cineff is quoting (Families USA)a ROGRESSIVE group, whose leader was appointed by Clinton.
I just don’t believe it!! This obvious distortion and deceit coming from some bloggers.
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annette tappa says...
So Randy are you saying that I should just pay the 750.00 fine rather than my monthly premium? I think were on to something here, maybe everyone should just pay the fine because it’s cheaper!
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Ray Cunneff says...
According to American Spectator, the most conservative estimate of uninsured Americans in 2007 was 36 million (based on Census Bureau statistics). But of course, that was before recession unemployment caused 14,000 per day to lose coverage.
Since the recession began, an estimated 4 million additional Americans have (at least temporarily) lost their health insurance and 2 million have become long-term uninsured.
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Ray Cunneff says...
No Spin says…
“Please tell me what other product or service in your lifetime you have paid for and waited 4 years to use?”
Social Security, which I paid into for 48 years before using.
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138hwy says...
“Since the recession began.” What? You aren’t even on the same damm subject.
That isnt even germain…ahhh, screw it.
No use at all dealing with leftists.
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Randy Hall says...
The point is we are going to go Bankrupt, if we don’t do something. If we do something we are going to spend more money so we won’t go bankrupt?
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Randy Hall says...
Completely Reckless, Completely Irresponsible
from the Office of Senator Mitch McConnell
Thursday, December 17, 2009
‘And here’s the most outrageous part: at the end of this rush, they want us to vote on a bill that no one outside the Majority Leader’s conference room has even seen. That’s right. The final bill we’ll vote on isn’t even the one we’ve had on the floor. It’s the deal Democrat leaders have been trying to work out in private’
http://mcconnell.senate.gov/record.cfm?id=320943&start=1
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No Spin says...
Ray
You keep using misleading facts… The FACT is that the numbers you continue to quote INCLUDE the uninsured who could be but choose not to and illegals..
Once again.. the POINT is… fix the costs, reform TORT, make insurance cheaper and subsidize TEMPORARILY families who cannot afford care..
WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT ray?
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No Spin says...
EVEN if we take ray’s 36 million or 45 million uninsured numbers at face value, it is still a very SMALL Minority of the 300+ million in the US..
So tell me why throw what we have away and create a new system? Makes NO SENSE..
ALL polls show a huge majority of Americans are HAPPY with their health care..
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No Spin says...
Ray….
So you support paying increased taxes and not getting UHC until 4 years later?
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Ray Cunneff says...
I didn’t say that. You asked, “Please tell me what other product or service in your lifetime you have paid for and waited 4 years to use?” And I answered.
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Ray Cunneff says...
No Spin says…
“Once again.. the POINT is… fix the costs, reform TORT, make insurance cheaper and subsidize TEMPORARILY families who cannot afford care..”
“WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT ray?”
Not a thing…as far as it goes. We should also allow purchase of insurance from other states. (And I don’t understand why anyone, apart from the insurance companies, opposes it.)
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Randy Hall says...
We are close to a intheav health reform bill.
1. Tort reform
2. Make health insurance cheaper by allowing competition across state lines.
3. Temporarily subsidize familes who cannot afford necessary health care.
Easy, done; what’s so hard about that?
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Ray Cunneff says...
Out-of-state insurance would stimulate competition, something the insurance companies have lobbied heavily against.
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Randy Hall says...
Our intheav bill would only piss off insurance companies and lawyers. If we mandate insurance coverage that means lawyers would be guaranteed a deep pocket to sue. Insurance companies could write risky loans, oops I mean policies and the government would be obligated to back them up when they lose money.
I think we’ve done that before.
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138hwy says...
It does NOTHING for the debate when leftists, without fail, demonize insurance companies. They are an easy target, but the liberals/leftists say nothing that the pharacutical companies are in bed with oopsbummer because the president? gave them the store.
Or, is it o-kay to sometimes pay $200. for a needed prescription? Selective outrage is comical..
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Randy Hall says...
Without insurance to guarantee against risk our world would be much smaller and not nearly so grand. To have the left demonize the insurance companies forget that insurance is collective risk. The insurance companies make a profit by sharing the risk between policy makers but why not get better rates if you are less risky? Those that smoke, drink, or are fat are at risk for increased costs; anybody see anything wrong from them to pay extra for care if they chose that life style?
Better student, better drive cheaper auto insurance. I think a clean family history normal blood work; healthy lifestyle should give you less costly insurance.
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No Spin says...
RH
Healthy Lifestyle choices need to be included in any program… IT saves money..
And Ray.. SO what that the insurance companies lobbied against out of state purchases?? That point has NOTHING do with the discussion.. NADA…ZILCH..
Other than to make the Insurance companies look evil and alter the direction to DISGUISE the real issue here, there is NO valid reason to include it..
Typical slight of hand.. right out of the liberal manifesto…
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No Spin says...
RH
The National average of profits for insurance companies is less than 3%…
Want to invest?
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No Spin says...
ray..
again…. are you ok with being taxed now and not getting UHC until 2013? Just a simple question…
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138hwy says...
“Typical slight of hand..right out of the liberal manifesto.” lol
Libs are “creative”, and you gotta give them that. They never have a reasonable argument, so they “go after” insurance companies, etc.
There was/is even a plan to “go after” the wife of Joe Lieberman because he didn’t fall in line with the marxists.
The “plan” was dig into her past and check any court record against her in Conn. Nice people, these lefty’s.
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Grumpy says...
When you start on a big project you need to know what the objective is.
So, just for my own curiosity, does the intheav gang think we should have universal health care for everyone in America? By this, I mean do you think it should be a society-granted “right”?
If the answer is yes, then the project should be attacked differently from if the answer is no.
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No Spin says...
Grumpy…
NO…but I do think reforms are needed and some type of TEMPORARY assistance program for the elderly and poor who cannot afford medical care needs to be implemented and-or Medical -Medicare expanded and-or revised..
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No Spin says...
If the Libs Really cared, why not just simplify it all by creating Health Care payouts to ALL Americans? Re: Give families and singles XX amount of Health Care redeemable certificates per year to be used ONLY for health insurance? If we are going to spend trillions, why not adapt this approach instead?
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lancaster says...
dontno says;
ray
and your 45.7 million includes:
Illegal Immigrants
People who can afford it and refuse
18-30 year olds who do not think they need it because they are immortal..
The REAL number by legitimate sources is closer to 15 million… less then 5% of the population..
So OVERHAUL the entire system for the less than 5% that need the help?
can u tell us were u got these percentils?
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lancaster says...
the LIBS won’t be able to do anything.
mainly because we tried to be non-partisan.
and with the help of the repubs, who did nothing but spend the money on a war, during thier 8 yr reign. we have a gutless bill that won’t do crap.
but that is what the repubs want.
nothing good attributed to obama, so they can get back in power.
and then we can then have more yrs. of nothing from the repubs!
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lancaster says...
i agree with dean on this one.
kill this bill and move on to reconciliation.
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Ray Cunneff says...
FOOTNOTE: In 2007, the CEOs at the top seven for-profit, private insurance companies pocketed an average of $14.2 million in total compensation. That figure does not include second-tier executive compensation, a figure estimated to be roughly equal to CEO’s overall, leaving an average profit of between 2% and 8% (Humana being the lowest).
CEO’s at the big health-care companies make two-thirds more than their counterparts in the financial sector and are the highest paid of any industry.
With this level of executive compensation, it’s amazing they’re showing any profit at all.
The health-care industry’s total annual profit has grown to an estimated $200 billion, and it doled out nearly $170 million in campaign contributions in 2007 and 2008. It now spends more than any other industry lobbying the federal government—$3.5 billion over the past decade and a record $263 million in the first six months of this year.
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No Spin says...
lancaster
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/06/the-real-uninsured/
- The Census Bureau estimates that 45.7 million lacked health insurance at any given time in 2007. But fewer lacked coverage for the full year, and more did without for one or more months during the year. All three numbers are likely to be higher for 2008 due to massive job losses.
- Twenty-six percent of the uninsured are eligible for some form of public coverage but do not make use of it, according to The National Institute for Health Care Management Foundation. This is sometimes, but not always, a matter of choice.
- Twenty-one percent of the uninsured are immigrants, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation. But that figure includes both those who are here legally and those who are not.
- Twenty percent of the uninsured have family incomes of greater than $75,000 per year, according to the Census Bureau. But this does not necessarily mean they have access to insurance. Even higher-income jobs don’t always offer employer-sponsored insurance, and not everyone who wants private insurance is able to get it.
- Forty percent of the uninsured are young, according to KFF. But speculation that they pass up insurance because of their good health is unjustified. KFF reports that many young people lack insurance because it’s not available to them, and people who turn down available insurance tend to be in worse health, not better, according to the Institute of Medicine
DO you want more lancaster?? I have tons of references…
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lancaster says...
1. This is sometimes, but not always, a matter of choice.
2. But that figure includes both those who are here legally and those who are not.
3. Twenty percent of the uninsured have family incomes of greater than $75,000 per year, according to the Census Bureau. But this does not necessarily mean they have access to insurance. Even higher-income jobs don’t always offer employer-sponsored insurance, and not everyone who wants private insurance is able to get it.
4. But speculation that they pass up insurance because of their good health is unjustified.
and yet what u say in the above post, with ur own source disputing what u state in the above points. kind of the opposite of ur remark;
“Illegal Immigrants
People who can afford it and refuse
18-30 year olds who do not think they need it because they are immortal..”
so who’s misleading who?
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PKShaw says...
There are people who are willing and able to pay for health insurance but cannot get it because of pre-existing conditions, and it is for those people I would like to see something done. Having said that though, an important distinction needs to be made and that is a lack of health coverage doest not equate a lack of health care. There are hospitals and clinics all over this country that provide services to the uninsured.
We even have at least one in Palmdale. I know because I went there for a minor medical condition that required a prescription to cure. My regular doctor was out of the office for some family issue and I didn’t want to go to the emergency room because the problem I had was not life threatening. I found a clinic in the phone book and went there. They REFUSED to even look at my situation because I had insurance. I offered to pay cash instead and they looked at me like I was crazy and said they had no mechanism in place to accept money.
But also bear in mind that things are not all that rosy for those who do have insurance. No matter how good it is, there is plenty that won’t be covered.
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No Spin says...
lancaster..
Huh? look.. save the babble for later..
EVEN if the 45.7 million figure is 100% correct, which it is not when you look at how many COULD be insured but refuse, it still represents a very SMALL Portion of the population…
WHY change everything lancaster? What is the REAL purpose? And why not just issue Health Care Certificates to everyone to use or not? Let me make my choice of companies… If the Gub’mt REALLY wants to make sure I am covered and wants to help, give me the money planned for this monster instead?
Why is that a bad idea?
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No Spin says...
Pre-existing is another problem that could be addressed and should be… BUT to destroy the current system and replace it with a gub’mt one is insanity..
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Ray Cunneff says...
Aetna C.E.O. Ronald Williams has helped purge millions of members from the company’s rolls; his total annual compensation in 2008 was $24,300,112. Angela Braly, who has promised that WellPoint “will not sacrifice profitability,” also saw a raise, to $9,844,212. Cigna’s Edward Hanway saw his pay cut in half and still hauled in $12,236,740, but he was forced to manage a major P.R. crisis after the company initially refused to approve a liver transplant for a 17-year-old girl, which it said was “outside the scope of the plan’s coverage.” She died just hours after Cigna changed its mind and decided it would pay for a new liver after all. Despite a 75 percent pay drop in 2008, cutting him down to a humiliating $3,241,042, UnitedHealth Group’s Stephen Hemsley put on a brave face for Congress, assuring legislators: “Our mission at UnitedHealth Group is to help people live healthier lives.” UnitedHealth has been fined tens of millions of dollars for claims-processing violations (i.e., stiffing patients and doctors). Hemsley’s predecessor, William McGuire, resigned amid a stock-options backdating scandal in 2006. He still walked away with nearly half a billion dollars in stock options. Hemsley surrendered $190 million in options himself, but with $744,232,068 left over, he should be fine.
The bottom line for health-insurance companies is that things like new livers really eat into profits. But it’s not just the expensive life-and-death stuff they’re rejecting. While health-insurance premiums have more than doubled in the past decade, a recent study by the California Nurses Association found that the six biggest insurers in California denied an average of 21 percent of all claims in the first half of 2009, with PacifiCare denying an astonishing 39.6%. The nurses were able to conduct their study, the first of its kind, only because California requires insurance companies to provide detailed records of claims denials. (It’s the only state with such a mandate.)
Matt Kapp – Vanity Fair
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lancaster says...
not a bad idea, don’t know.
but the repubs would never let it happen
so so sorry u can’t understand the discrepancy’s between ur statement and ur source.
got to ask, how come it’s always babble if u don’t like it?
i guess that makes ur incorrect statements…….
what, nothing but wisdom and truth???
lol
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PKShaw says...
Why can’t we change the law to open all states to every insurer, creating more choices, and more competition – then enact reasonable laws that all private insurers have to abide. This would fix the parts that are broken but not further bankrupt the country.
We also need to end the practice of forcing hospitals to accept every uninsured person who crosses the threshold. This would force more people to get their own coverage thus resulting in more people paying into the pool.
Seems simple to me.
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No Spin says...
ray
And the point is??? I can cut and paste a article that disputes your numbers and also suggests that on an average denial rates are less than 10%… and that Medi Cal and Medi Care are the highest..
But that has NOTHING to do with this discussion.. you have a bone to pick with the Insurance companies, fine.. I get that.. TRUST ME…
So the way to fix it is have the gub’mt take over and control it?? LMAO!!
The answer is to tackle each issue as a stand alone and come up with “Fixes.”
Why is that a bad idea ray? Are you willing to pay increased taxes for 4 years and then GET health care?
I am NOT… it is a ponzi scheme..
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No Spin says...
lancaster
The idea I posted was McCains!!! So to say the GOP would not accept it is…
—> BABBLE..
Let me ask you… Are you willing to pay increased taxes for 4 years and then GET health care?
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lancaster says...
ray
u might also know what no one likes to speak of.
THE INCREDIBLY LARGE COMPENSATION PACKAGES THESE CEO’S GET, ARE """BEFORE PROFIT""".
FILED AS COST OF DOING BUSINESS.
as is the millions they pay out to our representatives, to keep the american people from policing em!
after the big bucks are divided up amongst the top executives, 3% is what’s left for the pensioners, employees 401"s and stockholders to fight over.
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No Spin says...
PK
How many times in here has this discussion been posted? And yet the same old rhetoric always infests the dialog… it is silly…
You and I an Denise had a great discussion on this very subject awhile back and came up with some excellent choices..
And here we are again… ray shooting at Inusrance companies as if they are the ONLY problem and lancaster disputing the REAL numbers instead of simply discussing the issue..
Kinda Boring actually..
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lancaster says...
did u not bother to read my post? again?
2/17/09 – 07:19 PM
lancaster says…
the LIBS won’t be able to do anything.
mainly because we tried to be non-partisan.
and with the help of the repubs, who did nothing but spend the money on a war, during thier 8 yr reign. we have a gutless bill that won’t do crap.
but that is what the repubs want.
nothing good attributed to obama, so they can get back in power.
and then we can then have more yrs. of nothing from the repubs!
and
12/17/09 – 07:20 PM
lancaster says…
i agree with dean on this one.
kill this bill and move on to reconciliation.
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No Spin says...
lancaster
So what? How does that affect this issue?
Oh wait.. that’s right..LIBS think it is ok toc control salaries, so I am sure there will be a Health Care Pay Czar…
Yup.. that’s the ticket…and so American, right?
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lancaster says...
and the repubs won’t let anything that would help the people while obama is in office, pass!
whether macain push’s it or not
they had yrs to do something, but HC PROFTS STILL WENT UP OVER 400% IN 6 YRS.
2001-2007
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No Spin says...
RH
I agree.. we now have an InTheAv NON-PARTISAN HEALTH BILL
1. Tort Reform
2. Out of state Purchases
3. Healthy living discounts
4. Pre-existing conditions reforms
5. Emergency Room Accepting all patients reform
Ok….then… we are done..
Now onto Illegal Immigration..
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lancaster says...
really, what does salary have to do with this issue?
if a person pays for insurance, and is denied coverage for medical care, because a EXECUTIVE needs a 10 million dollar a year raise, u don’t think that affects this issue?
if a bonus is promised, if a certain profit level is reached that year, and that level is reached by dropping 20,000
subscribers who needed care, that wouldn’t affect this issue?
are you that out of touch???
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No Spin says...
lancaster
This country is 233 years old and has NEVER had a United Health Care program, yet has always had uninsured citizens!!
For you to blame the GOP over the last 8 years is bullshit.. what about Clinton Care? was that the GOP’s FAULT TOO??
FDR tried also… was that the GOP’s fault?
etc…etc…etc..
And by the way…Medi Cal and Medi Care were passed with BI PARTISAN Support..
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lancaster says...
so what if the company takes all the money, and gives the subscribers nothing for that money, would u support that? how bought 50%? 30%? less coverage for bigger salarys?
as long as we don’t have a CZAR? RIGHT?
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No Spin says...
So lancaster
You DO want the gub’mt to control private company salaries?? wow..
That is communism..
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lancaster says...
HOW LONG HAS THIS COUNTRY HAD HEALTH INSURANCE CO.S?
70 yes ago u could see a doctor for a chicken.
can we go back to that?
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lancaster says...
not at all dontno. i’m what ur for. those CEO’s should be able to take our money and give us nothing for it.
LOL
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lancaster says...
and it would be such a shame for em to lose their anti-trust status. lololo
poor lil guy’s. but they’ll be ok. they got people like u, fighting for em.
FOR FREE!!!! LOLOLOLOL
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No Spin says...
lancaster
IF we are getting NOTHING and Over 70% of Americans are happy with their health care,so how do you explain that?
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No Spin says...
lancaster
I am not fighting for the insurance companies, I want reform.. we need reform..
But I will NEVER support the gub’mt telling anyone how much they can make!
That is not America..
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RealSteve says...
lancaster
So how much profit, that’s what we’re talking about with health care companies, should one be allowed to make? 2%, 50%, no profit at all.
Then how much do they make in profit?
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RealSteve says...
lancaster
To save you the effort.
“Health insurers posted a 2.2 percent profit margin last year”…news busters.
So how about them road apples?
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No Spin says...
Have fun kids… I have a room full of amazingly talented singers in my front room rehearsing for a show my company is producing for April 2010 and I need to listen and critique..
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lancaster says...
AND RH, THAT’S THE QUESTION.
CAN’T SAY IT ENOUGH, BUT THE 3% PROFIT
WE’RE TALKING ABOUT IS “AFTER”, THE BIG BOYS HAVE BEEN COMPENSATED.
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Randy Hall says...
If we totally made top employee’s give up there compensation how much do you think it would help your cause? Would it cut costs 10%, 5%, 3%? Would it allow 1 million more people access to health care? If big CEO salary is the bug a boo, what would it do to your picture if they only made normal wages? I ask this question of Guy, but he has no good answer for it. I’ll bet you have the math and everything all figured out and are just dying to tell us how many more people will be treated, and how much cheaper health insurance will be.
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RealSteve says...
lancaster
OK, so how much should a CEO make? Is it up to the stock holders of a company to decide? Or are you one of those people that beleive that the CEO should only make X times the lowest paid person in the company?
I’d probably agree with some legislation to allow more power to stock holders to vote on executive salaries, because stock holders own the company, the government, not so much. That’s called capitalism.
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lancaster says...
doesn’t speak to the gold cutlery on the private jets, and other obscene expenditures , house’s, vacations, party’s, etc etc, that they don’t get TAXED on. (u know, biz-nes.)
(u know, just like welfare).
including the purchase of our rep’s.
AND I WOULD BE FINE WITH THAT. well not the tax part
IF THEY GAVE PEOPLE WHAT THEY PAID FOR.
INSTEAD OF FINDING EVERY EXCUSE TO NOT GIVE IT.
and nothing is more insulting then waiting to drop some one for pre- existing conditions, ONLY WHEN THEY GO TO USE THE INSURANCE.
KNOW WHY THEY WAIT TO FIND THOSE PROBLEMS?
SO THEY CAN COLLECT THE CASH RIGHT UP TO THE DAY THEY DROP U.
i would be just as happy to treat this as a criminal issue. u know with cops and courts,
like any GRAND LARCENY, or FELONY THEFT!
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Randy Hall says...
Ok, then just triple their salary and do the math from there. Should be a snap for a wizard like you. You can’t stand them, show us their footprint, and I may join you. But if it is envy you speak, well that’s a sin.
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lancaster says...
RS
this is where u and i will never agree.
i say why worry about at all.
i want single payer. non-profit health care.
there are things i’m more of a moderate on.
this ISN’T one of em.
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lancaster says...
sex and envy toyboy?
do u know that there are other human states of mind?
u think i want a private jet?
and eat off gold plates?
ur talking about someone esle again.
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lancaster says...
u drinking again? don’t bother answering TB. i don’t really care.
got to see to the critters anyway.
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Randy Hall says...
Single payer or 3rd party pay is what lost us home doctor visits. We had real health care when you were responsible for paying for it. Like electricity, I want single payer electricity, think usage will go up or down. If you say the same, well we all know better. Be nice to have a single payer 4,500 sq house. Single payer Mercedes. Single payer 19 foot LCD flat screen TV. Side walks paved in gold could happen with single payer too.
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RealSteve says...
lancaster
Then move to England, and come down with something and die. In England, if the state determines you are going to die, they put you on the path to the end, which includes lots and lots of lovely medicines to wack you out of your mind….hey maybe Cagy Wolf will move there and claim he is dying so he can get his free weed.
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lancaster says...
really toyboy? except we’re talking about healthcare!!!
no ones talking about your dreams of ultra consumerism.
but when they start trying to get single payer Mercedes and flat screens, i tell ya what!
i’ll vote against it!
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lancaster says...
RS
you gotta source on that?
tell that to steven hawkins!
he found it amusing when he heard it the 1st time. i’m sure he never gets too much of such flights of fancy.
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lancaster says...
RS
the WHO list life expectancy, “07”,
82 years for the united kingdom at 82.
america is 81.
CIA factbook, “09”,
infant deaths per 1000
United kingdom 4.65
USA 6.23
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lancaster says...
single payer is something we’ve never had, so u can blame the death
of doctors house calls on…wait for it…
INSURANCE COMPANY’S. LOL
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Randy Hall says...
The UK doesn’t try and save every kid. We do, that is why that stat looks odd. If we try to emulate the UK system we would try and save few kids, and our mortality rates would drop.
Single payer is insurance. We lost house calls and proper medical care when FDR capped salaries so business had to offer off the books income in the form of benefits.
Single payer is the biggest reason health care costs are out of control. The recipient of the largess doesn’t care how much something costs. If you incentivize health care with MSAs and mandated catastrophic health care, it would reform health care over night.
Problem is insurance companies don’t want that.
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Randy Hall says...
More information why dems/libs exploite our infant mortality rates:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/11/dems_exploit_infant_deaths_to.html
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Randy Hall says...
Wave of the future?
http://www.mycongressmanisnuts.com/
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Randy Hall says...
ABC’s Karen Travers reports from Washington:
President Obama told ABC News’ Charles Gibson in an interview that if Congress does not pass health care legislation that will bring down costs, the federal government “will go bankrupt.”
The president laid out a dire scenario of what will happen if his health care reform effort fails.
“If we don’t pass it, here’s the guarantee….your premiums will go up, your employers are going to load up more costs on you,” he said. “Potentially they’re going to drop your coverage, because they just can’t afford an increase of 25 percent, 30 percent in terms of the costs of providing health care to employees each and every year. “
The president said that the costs of Medicare and Medicaid are on an “unsustainable” trajectory and if there is no action taken to bring them down, “the federal government will go bankrupt.”
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theworldnewser/2009/12/president-obama-federal-government-will-go-bankrupt-if-health-care-costs-are-not-reigned-in.html
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