“…we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of controversy.” — Nancy Pelosi.
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What doesn’t make sense is that this plan WILL NOT allow employers to go without other than face a fine.

They are all contradicting themselves. God help us all if we don’t do our own research on this.
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The 2700 page Health Plan was written to create confusion and allow money to be siphoned to programs that have nothing to do with Health Care. The vast number of loop holes is designed to create an arena for lawyers, to make billions of dollars. It is also about the federal government taking control of just about everything in the health care world including pharmacutical companies.

What I would like to see, is what the Republicans and the Tea Party supports, competition and open borders for health care.

Based on the level of ferocity the Democrats are using, it is evident that they believe in this cause. I don’t think their main motive is health care for every American, it is about money and power. I think it is sad that so many Americans are going have to change so much of the economy to accommodate a small percentage of people who don’t have insurance.

During the campaign, the candidates could never get the actual number of Americans who were uninsured down. The numbers ranged from 20 million to 50 million. If true, would it not be easier to create a new program for the uninsured instead of changing the whole system.

I guess we will have to wait and see. If possible, watch the YOU TUBE video of Catherine Bragg at a town hall in NOCAL. Very impressive woman, should run for office.
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An example of the extreme waste in our system is that in two of my hospitals, I was able, working with my team of managers, to standardize, implement formularies, review wasteful habits of nursing staff and physicians, etc. and reduced the non-payroll expenditures for one year by over $1 million. The changes I implemented did not reduce staffing nor did it have any negative implications on the high quality of patient care we provided. Now just image that type of waste reduction throughout the nation. It takes a commitment to cost reduction while maintaining an even stronger commitment to quality of care. Patients need not experience reduced quality or acceess when addressing the waste and abuse in our current system of healthcare.

As for the comment about wanting to see an increase in competition, this system will do exactly that.

Speaking as a Democrat, I object to the comment that the motive by Democrats is not one for improved coverage, protections and access to healthcare for ALL Americans, but is instead, about money. Nothing is further from the truth. If we want a system that is ALL about the money, let’s do nothing at all. Then it really would be about money, the money going into the pockets of insurance companies and healthcare organizations that are abusing the system and not meeting the needs of all patients.
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This monster is a travesty..
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But what bothers me the most is the idea that health care/coverage is an entitlement. How many times have we heard an interviewer ask “Aren’t Americans entitled to health care?”
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Those who have to use AV Hospital or County Hospital, that same visit would be a lot longer. But still, the uninsured will be seen.
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Next they will “tweek” the Constitution as Chuck Schumer has stated to dems. in private. Glenn Beck got the recording from a dem. friend and played it this past week.
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And while it may say that it doesn’t say that someone else has to pay for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Answer: Many suggested or mandated abortions.
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Maybe palmdalelee will buy it for me?
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Did you know that they believe that you have the right to a job, health care, house, etc.?

That’s where the US is heading.
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As for the comment related to Kaiser, Kaiser is a good example of what is right with healthcare. Many aspects of the operating systems of Kaiser have gone into this bill. Incidently, Kaiser is consistently rated by all regulatory bodies as the most cost efficient healthcare provider in the nation and also consistently receives the highest rankings possible by the JCAHO (Joint Commission for Accreditation of Healthcare Organizations) and is held in the highest esteem by the CDC (Center for Disease Control). Kaiser ranks tops nationally in every clincal measure of quality from infant mortality rates to womens’ breast cancer screening and PAP smears. If we could have Kaiser as a national plan, operating in the manner it is structured, we would not have a system that needs to be fixed.

As for rights, you take the rights you have here in this country for granted. You don’t give them a second thought because they are there for you and you expect them. Let them be taken away and how soon would those of you screaming about people wanting their rights be joining into the chorus demanding them?
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If the bill passes, it is going to be very interesting for the next few years.
With Health Care For All not going into effect for 4-5 years from now, but taxes being pulled probably in the next fiscal year, we will have to wait and see what happens. I am sure that there were be challenges and changes made to it to make it work.

I heard that about 35 states will challenge the law if passed. I guess the issue of States Rights vs the Federal Government will be tested. States are not ready or financially in any shape to help support the Health Care Bill if passed.

If Passed, we will have months and maybe years of things to talk about. The can of worms, Pandora’s Box, a Cluster &*$#, has all been created. Dems will be spouting off, Reps will be spouting off, it should be interesting.

PALMDALELEE:
When talking about Medicaid, would it not have been easier to modify it and allow for money’s to go towards that one program rather than to re-write the whole Health Care System? You seemed to be very well versed on Medicaid, please educate me.
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It sounds like the Private Insurance plans are more efficiently run than Medicaid is. Sounds like the government should re-tool their own program instead of fixing my insurance, that already works.

It does not matter, the Dems will win on Sunday and my insurance will change sometime thereafter.
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If it passed (and I’m thinking it will), America will become a better place, Americans left and right will be glad it’s passed in a few years time at the most, and Obama will have sealed his place of honor in history.

Tip of my hat to Democrats for finally showing some backbone.
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The President and some members of Congress trying to force reform on the rest of us without them either knowing what it’s going to cost or not telling us what it will cost;

Passing this bill knowing full well the majority of Americans don’t want it;

House leadership not allowing Republican solutions to even be discussed all the while blaming Repubs for not “doing anything”;

Not listening to the health care providers who are saying this reform won’t work and they will leave the medical profession if it passes;

Manipulating the American people by claiming 30 million people don’t have health CARE when it’s COVERAGE they don’t have, not CARE and also claiming 40,000 Americans die every year because they lack CARE when you and I both know that no one is ever turned away from a hospital because they don’t have insurance;

Sidestepping the Constitution of the United States that they swore an oath to uphold and defend;

Assuming this bill will actually fix ANYTHING after watching the so-called stimulus money go towards stimulating the economies of other countries instead of the US

and lastly, just one word that says it all . . .

ACORN.

Don’t talk to me about immaturity until your party answers for some of its own.
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This thread is turning bizarre, between the ridiculous points that PKShaw made, and now you.

“Nobody has ever been turned away from being cared” is a breathtakingly ridiculous thing to say.
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Obama is a third world president. He’s anti-American, post-modern, atheistic, believes in totalitarianism, and his associates are crooks, liars, and fanatics. Obama came from nowhere, has no American values, has nothing to give or offer, and is going nowhere. He’s an ACORN organizer with ACORN’s Marxist beliefs.

Talk about believing in nonsense.
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The President when he says everything will be discussed openly?

Or maybe the one about paying as we go and not borrowing more money?

Or how about federal money would be used to create jobs?

The truth is I don’t know whether I support this bill or not because I have no way of knowing exactly what’s in it or what it will cost. But you tell me why I should believe ANYTHING the President or Congressional Democrats say?
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/19/AR2010031900424.html?nav=hcmodule
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One reason you don’t know what’s in the bill is because the Republicans have been throwing sand in the air since Day One. They’ve had ZERO interest in discussing the merits of health care reform; most notably during the scripted “disrupt town meetings” circus of last summer.

All I see the right talk about is made-up ridiculousness like:

“Death panels”
“Socialized medicine”
“government takeover of healthcare”
“shovel-ready grandma”
“sidestepping the Constitution”

…and that’s all the right sees, believes, or talks about. And now you complain about not knowing the facts? LOL

The right is making ZERO effort to understand ANY of the real issues of healthcare, and how Obama is trying to solve the problem. We would have had a much better bill, methinks, if we had an honest loyal opposition.

Republican points—including yours—mean nothing. They’re only noise, to mask the only single point Republicans truly have: kill health care reform, of any kind or sort, at all costs.

I don’t have a problem understanding what the real healthcare reform issues are, or what Obama’s plan will do (or even could have done if not for the intrasigent right). Because I have sifted fact from bullshit, and track the facts.

I suggest you do the same.
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Then there are the other ones. The ones that drop out school after a less than stellar performance, drift from menial job to another like it and/or criminal activity. Making one bad, irresponsible choice after another, never doing one thing that helps society in any way.

And yet, as usual, people like you expect the folks in the first group to provide for the ones in the second. Section 8, food stamps, WIC, Medi-Cal, Earned Income Credit, are all ways we subsidize them. They pay no income or property taxes – they don’t even have to pay for the costs of their incarceration. We do that as well.

What do you say to this? Never mind, I already know. You’ll say I’m greedy. Well if I’m so greedy why on earth would I want to pay for their health insurance too?
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As long as you stay in your world of sweeping partisan talking point rants, you’ll get no closer to knowing much substantive about this health care bill.
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To explain my problems with PK’s logic: There are quite a few assumptions on the part of PK’s expected track for everybody in the country. That there are ONLY two directions that a person can go is the first one. In other words, those persons that work hard but could not afford to acquire a higher education (either in money, time, or for other innocent reasons) and therefore work in more menial jobs supporting those who work in the higher end careers are prejudged by this scenario to, “drift from menial job to another like it and/or criminal activity. Making one bad, irresponsible choice after another, never doing one thing that helps society in any way.” Please note the “and/or” that places those persons who do not make much money into the same classification as criminals. By this way, the presumption of laziness “and/or” even criminality is established, leaving no other possibilities as to how said person(s) live or return anything to the community in which they live (indeed, it is flatly accused that they are,“never doing one thing that helps society in any way”).

Once the lower class of workers are thusly categorized automatically as the equivalent as criminals, PK is able to rationalize away any feeling of concern for the fact that it is the moneyed, well educated, career people (can you say MBA’s?) running these companies that have put us into this bind by not acting responsibly and providing the necessary perquisites for their employees that they get to enjoy for themselves.
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Blame business for your preception your econnomic position and look for god/government to help means you get more of the same.

Life improves when you depend on yourself for happiness and well-being. If you blame another your life will always suck because those that seek power over you will want you to feel despairate at all times.
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Again I ask the question in which I would like an answer: in the years to come there will be more children born from the children who will become adults. How are we supposed to cover the millions more including the 30+ million now? hmmm…

And if the post office is over budget now and requesting that they away Saturday deliveries, what makes you think that the government won’t do the same when they are over budget after a influx of children are added to the system?

Three words: Amtrak, post office, DMV.
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I will agree with you that life is generally improved when you depend upon yourself for happiness and well-being, with the caveat that the definition of happiness is somewhat open to interpretation.

Running along the same lines as Whomeye, one thing that really bugs me and that I want to know is why, as a business owner, I can not find any medical insurance to offer to my employees that is as inclusive as Medi-Cal is at any price. This does not seem right to me.

All that said, though, my point had more to do with the blanket labeling of everybody below the “well-to-do” line of income as the equivalent as criminals.
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Even bringing up the ridiculous “Clinton caused the financial meltdown” talking point—worthy of talking about in another thread (along the lines of “Wow! Republicans will make up ANYTHING to deflect blame!”). But you’re right Jason, it has nothing to do with this thread’s health care debate.
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And if the post office is over budget now and requesting that they away Saturday deliveries, what makes you think that the government won’t do the same when they are over budget after a influx of children are added to the system?

Three words: Amtrak, post office, DMV.
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In theory (and reality), when there are more children, there are also more adult taxpayers (and premium payers) to keep up with the growth.

Your Post Office comparison isn’t a good one. The PO is not dying because costs are killing it per se. The PO is dying because the demand for the PO has died with the advent of email/etc. So the PO is in a position of declining revenues due to declining use…so they’re talking about reducing a delivery day to duly reflect that.

Health care demand will never decline in such a way (unless we find a miracle cure for “getting sick”). It’ll always be a relatively predictable function of the population.
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You don’t have to say, “the comment I’m about to make it not racist…”

You stated a fact. Race baiters need to deal with their own issues.
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I am so so glad we have one more in here to play with..

Next up.. lancasterLame..
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If I can find that video, I’ll post it.
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If they took all the poke out of this plan the bill would most likely be only about 10 pages
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Sean Hannity welcomed back his bigoted pal, Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson, last night (3/19/10). You probably recall that Peterson is the African American who can’t seem to face a Fox News camera without accusing other African Americans of racism. In some of his noteworthy prior appearances, he characterized “most blacks” in Tennessee as racists and, in a later appearance announced, “I think we all agree that Barack Obama was elected mostly by black racists and white guilty people.” Despite such inflammatory, anti-African American rhetoric, Peterson keeps getting invited back. Last night, Peterson topped off a slew of racially-tinged, anti-Obama rhetoric by declaring, “I have changed the White House from being the White House to Big Mama’s House.” Kudos to Professor Caroline Heldman for calling him on his racist remark. With video.

http://foxnewswatchdog.com/?p=8441
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How many man hours have been spent on this mess so far? Why not design a plan for those that don’t have inmsurance as opposed to a complete overpriced rebuild?
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That is exactly the point.. If the purity of their “goal” was sincere to the idea that health care needs reform, there would be no need for 2,900 pages..

10 pages would fix the 4 main issues, but that would not help the progressives, not the dems, take over my country..

The truth is.. it is all about control and power..
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So what say you to making people who have a religious objection to paying for abortions do so, which is what the Senate bill would do.

I’m much rather see a check off box or something that allows people if they so choose to support abortions, but forcing folks with a strong religious conviction on the matter to pay their tax dollars to support something that they think is morally wrong is just that…wrong.
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Persevere..
Guy..

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So I assume you would give the same option to people who are against killing (who don’t support war of any type), people who are morally opposed to divorce, fornication, and any/all other “sins”?

Of course, the answer is: if a thing is legal, then citizens don’t (currently) get to pick and choose which taxes they pay or not.

As for this health care legislation, it does very little (to nothing) to change the current status quo on abortion.
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Conscious Objectors answers your question.

But abortion is murder to some people, and you are supporting tax payer funded murder in the Senate bill.

You may not like that, I don’t agree 100 percent, but it is a real issue for many many people.

But hey, the two reign of terror brought about by Democrats will be over come this November, thanks to ObamaCare.
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Let them see how difficult it is to find a job.
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That doesn’t answer the question.

Do Conscientious Objectors not have to pay taxes? (Answer: yes they do.) And even so, what about all the other people (I mentioned) who are morally against what their taxes pay for? What about capital punishment? If I’m against capital punishment, should I be able to decide my taxes won’t go to pay for that?

Again, the answer is no. If a thing is legal, we don’t generally get to pick and choose what our collected taxes will or won’t go to.

Besides, the Senate bill does nothing to change the abortion equation. The anti-abortion memes being screamed are of the same rational basis as the “pull the plug on grandma” nonsense—noise to try and drown out this effort.

Thank God Democrats have held firm against all the right wing BULLSHIT that’s been flung around. I’m pleasantly surprised (Democrats usually run and hide).
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But Democrats would lose the biggest if they fold on this bill. Doing nothing would cost them alot more in November than passing this will.

The bill could have been much better, sure. But the entire process was held hostage by the “party of nope” Republicans, so we have to settle for what we’ve got.
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So what’s your answer to religious folks that think abortion is murder.

F You or what?
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If you think abortion (or capital punishment) is murder…yea, tough shit. You still have to pay your taxes.

And this bill does not change the abortion equation. The right wing nuts are faux-pissed because this bill doesn’t go beyond current law by banning abortion.

Again…just noise.
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not only will they lose in november, but nobama will lose when the independants (who are the ones who made him win) see their taxes go up. sure the dem voters don’t mind because most of them won’t be effected since they already get everything for free.
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That’s reasonable.
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Can we agree on one thing though, if BillyWifeBuyer needs some sort of medical treatment can we agree the Death Panels will “Just Say No”?
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Maybe the reps and moderate dems will be able to fix this slop that the libs are leaving for the american people.
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Don’t worry, be happy, the Right Wing of the Republican party will demand Palin be the nominee or something equally as (Huckabee) stupid and so the Democrats are safe.
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Problem is Republicans havn’t had enough time to clean their house of non-conservatives.

But Barry is such an f’up so soon, that he’s not giving Repubs much time to clean up before they just throw another fake conservative out there.
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Republicans want to ‘protect’ the womb – but once that child in out and in the world – hey, you’re on you’re own! Pay no regard to that teen-age mother who has to raise that child, or find a family that will. Maybe she doesn’t want to give up her baby – would you?

Perhaps if that young woman had gotten some education on birth control, she wouldn’t have ended up in the 2nd category that PK describes. Perhaps the young man who either talked her into having sex with him, or raped her would have the knowledge as to ‘where babies come from’ too.

You can’t have it both ways. And btw, this new health care bill does allow for abortions, but the Mother has to pay thru her insurance for it. The $$ she puts down is held in a separate account – NOT connected with the G’vt funds.

Taxing medical benefits is nuts. As if we’re not paying enuf already.

and…..Those who spit and threw coins at a crippled man with Parkingson’s at a Tea Bagger Party and told him to look elsewhere for ‘free care & $$’ – are on the lowest of the food chain.
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Only there? ;)
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If I had my way birth control pills would be sold over the counter like they are in other countries.

The problem Repubs have with Planned Parenthood is it really isn’t ‘planned parenthood’. If it was they would counsel young women about adoption. There are thousands of couples who are eager and ready to adopt who have stable, financially secure homes to welcome the babies Planned Parenthood sucks down a drain.

“The Pill” was supposed to end unwanted/premature pregnancies but women are seemingly too irresponsible to take them. A plethora of birth control options exist from once a day to once in seven years and still we have far too many surprise pregnancies, in all age groups. Apparently knowledge of birth control options isn’t much of a deterrent.

And yes, the very best thing we can do is tell that young woman “you’re on your own” because the more we help the more we will have to help.

I think the biggest impact for my daughters was being around other high school girls who were either pregnant or already had a baby. The other mothers were surprised I let my girls hang out with those “bad” girls but I wanted them to see just what life was like as a teenaged mom. My girls got to see the lack of freedom, those girls having to spend all their money on their babies instead of on cute outfits for themselves, and how quickly the ‘baby daddies’ dropped out of sight. Raising children is hard, and it should be hard; it’s an activity meant for adults. Making it easier for teenagers gives them a pass they don’t deserve.
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I think Pat’s position is lamentably necessary, as much as I hate to admit it. I would much rather live in denial that these children aren’t having sex and making more children, but the truth is right there before our eyes. At least if these young girls are given birth control, they might have a chance to get through the “stupid period” of 14 to 24 with less emotional scars than an abortion would cause.

That’s my opinion today, but it may change tomorrow.
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Who needs potholes repaired when so many are on welfare, foodstamps, and are just lazy baby makers. And I’m refering to when the economy was doing well.
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4 Nieces – None “with child” as a teenager

Why? Invested and involved parenting..

Here are some real facts..
The CDC report, what you find is that the birth rate (births per 1,000) for females 15-19 breaks down like this:

Want to solve the problem? Looks at those stats and determine why..

I can almost guarantee you that the number of teenagers pregnant coming from single family homes is staggering..

Single Family homes in America

23% Non-Hispanic White
65% Black or African American
50% American Indian
16% Asian and Pacific Islander
38% Hispanic or Latino
Total 32%

Fix this and you take a GIANT step toward solving the problem.
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deficit neutral my butt…
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This of course is the key – intervention, responsible parenting – by ‘adults’ as PK says.

But, our society isn’t like that, is it? And access to available birth control products across the counter isn’t either.

Responsible parents expose their children to the alternatives. Then there’s the one’s who ignore their children and let them raise themselves—much like they were raised (most likely).

The healthcare proposal that requires young women to PAY for abortion services in their healthcare bill is a good idea-but it doesn’t go far enough. The young men should also be required to pay for some kind of ‘birth control’ option too!

This is why providing (and requiring) 30 million uninsured to get health insurance is so important. For many years, the young, the underemployed, etc who either not afford insurance or not think it not necessary to get it and would rather buy a fast car or ipod - should pay. Yes, responsible ‘adults’ are sick of paying for ‘emergency room’ bills, which has become their burden for ‘low income health care’.

People speak of those ‘on the dole’ to become more responsible for their actions. This concept is a beginning to that problem.
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If they could separate the ‘honest, hard-working but just don’t make much money’ folks from the lazy, underachieving, criminal, work under the table, illegal, ‘scamming the system’ types I wouldn’t have as much of an objection to it but it won’t, as government programs never do. We have to stop this insane punish/reward the wrong people system we currently have.

Another way the bill could be more effective – but will never happen – is to deny care to anyone showing up at emergency rooms without coverage. This would provide the necessary incentive for people to get it.

Something that is often missed in assumptions like this one is that there are in fact educated people who have worked hard who do go without health insurance by no fault of their own.

We followed the responsible path in life, went to k-12, stayed out of trouble, went to university and we are financially worse off than many people who never set foot on a university campus — people who found their jobs via nepotism or because they were married to the right people and had the right connections.
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Fixing the problem you posted is what should have been done… No one will disagree with you.

But what Obama and his thugs did was 2,900 pages of government takeover.
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You told me once you could get insurance for $128 per month but you couldn’t afford it. (I wish all we paid was that much – and now we have to pay the full fee for a doctor’s visit of $85 bucks a pop, making a simple prescription renewal pretty darn expensive)

Stop thinking employers provide FREE health coverage – THEY DON’T!
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Looks like Obama has succeeded where 100 years of Presidents failed.

How many Republican presidents even tried to address these healthcare issues? (Hint: less than one?)
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The shows about to start, I need some popcorn…
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It’s going to be fun to watch the White Party blow their top over this. And to watch them campaign against in-place insurance that many people will LIKE.

Obama once again has rope-a-doped the lunatic right. Just like the campaign—he let the loony right scream their nonsense (“Muslim!”, “terrorist!” back then, “grandma killer!”, “death panels!” now) until the froth on their mouths dried…then proceeded on.

The angry, bitter, small, pathetic, PREDICTABLE lunatic right will become even more marginalized.
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WILL ROBINSON must love you Ar2..
R2 Sky asks..
How many Republican presidents even tried to address these healthcare issues? (Hint: less than one?)

SO WHAT?? Talk about loons.. between you and LameCaster, all this room needs now is nurse Cratchett..
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What was “erroneous” about what I said? You’re married to an aerospace worker, aren’t you?

Yes, Patricia, I think I have a right to bitch and I will do so as much as I want to!
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If I mistakenly grouped all whites with the fringe loony whites who make up the Republican/Teabag party.

Most teabag Republicans are white, but most whites are not Republican d-bags. I mean teabags.
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Watched the protests today… thousands of American Citizens.. and what does Barney YapperDog Frank talk about?? The 3 or 4 idiots..makes it sound as if it was all them being asses..

And here comes R2…just like the good obedient talking head he-she wants to be… doing the EXACT same thing..

Congrats… a sheeple following his-her master.
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Science: more “talking points”

Education: “talking points!”

The reason you righties repeat the same thing over and over is because your designated thinkers (Beck, Hannity, Rush) tell you what to repeat.

The reason you hear me repeat things is because reality, reason, and logic are unyielding. Reality and reason today are the same as reality and reason tomorrow.

Anyway…get ready to eat what Obama serves you. With a spoon. Again. LOL
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So tell me genius.. how do you know what the demographic make up of the group is??

ANSWER— you don’t.. you get your bullshit from Overbite and Maddows and Matthews..

TRY attending one and then come back here and let us all know your thoughts..
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So tell me, what Talking points have the “Designated Thinkers” promoted that you dispute?

Since you must be a regular listener or viewer, (How else would you know what they say?), I am sure you have dozens of disputes?

Lay em on me, I am ready :-)

“Danger Will Robinson, Danger”
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Starting with just your post just up the page:

But what Obama and his thugs did was 2,900 pages of government takeover.

Do I need to tell you—really—how ridiculous you are to call this bill a “government takeover”? I’ll even give you credit for not needing me to.

I don’t have time or inclination to refute your lunacies one by one. By design, it’s easier for you to make shit up than it is for others to challenge your lack of facts. And it’s not worth it anyway…it works just as good to let you guys scream and throw fits…AND THEN PASS YOU BY AND DO WHAT WE NEED TO DO ANYWAY. (Enjoy the healthcare bill—oops, I mean LAW!)
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Never prove a point.. make shit up and run… Cluck..cluck..

I have no lunacies.. you made comments of facts that are in dispute and now you refuse to support them..

“Cluck”…"Cluck""
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30 yrs and it never even came up on ur guys radar.
u do realize there is all kinds of history behind a week ago?
try to keep up.
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FACT: If I do not pay the fine I could be jailed

FACT: I will pay for OBAMA Care now and not receive any benefits until 2014

FACT: Pre-existing conditions will still be an issue until 2014, but I am paying for them not to be now.

OK R2.. Dispute me :-)
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Nobody’s “making shit up” (except you), nobody’s “running” (except, apparently, you from the demons in your head).

You said you were “ready” for me to “lay on you” all your own talking points. I brought up ONE…and you apparently can’t even address that one!

So how big an IDIOT would I be to dance your monkeysong by listing MORE of your lunatic talking points? Just so you can ignore THEM too?
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And the point is?? LOL.. the resident court jester has arrived..
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Never said I was important.. glad you think I am …means a lot
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Tell me the following is not a TAKEOVER of my ability to choose if I want Health Care or not..

Attempt #2…

FACT: If I do not have insurance I will be fined $2,500

FACT: If I do not pay the fine I could be jailed

FACT: I will pay for OBAMA Care now and not receive any benefits until 2014

FACT: Pre-existing conditions will still be an issue until 2014, but I am paying for them not to be now.

OK R2.. Dispute me :-)
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No argument here.. just asking R2 for some clarification…
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You asked for a list of your talking points I disagree with. You practically taunted me to “lay it on you”.

I did…then you changed the subject. Or your other personality took over. I don’t know which.
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The clowns that voted for this bill, their days are numbered. I think they know it, but they’ll stay out of the spolight for awhile, to avoid attention.

In essence they just lost their jobs along with Hussein’s. The vast majority did not want this no matter what a measly percentage of O-zombies say. The American people will be there when it comes to election time.

All Obama had to do was stay low key, be an average kinda guy, and he’d stand a chance for a 2nd term, even with all his inexperience and radical friends and past.

If this were Bush, these hypocrites would be all over him.
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No support for your accusations yet?.

and LameCaster jumping in the middle of a discussion that is WAY over her head.. Come on Lame, try to stay on topic..I know you can do it..
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But it is fun how the Obama-Bots like Skye here makes shit up and then asked to provide support cannot and use the “I am not going to waste my time” ruse..

Very funny stuff..
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FACT: If I do not pay the fine I could be jailed

FACT: I will pay for OBAMA Care now and not receive any benefits until 2014

FACT: Pre-existing conditions will still be an issue until 2014, but I am paying for them not to be now.

OK Skye.. Dispute me :-)
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Some quotable quotes:

“We followed the most radical voices in the party and the movement, and they led us to abject and irreversible defeat.”

“No illusions please: This bill will not be repealed.”

The only question remaining: does Obama’s face go on Mt. Rushmore’s RIGHT or LEFT?
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And the point of quoting one writer is?
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And he’s a Republican. Meaning—you should be happy about this—that your party has hope.
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Let me try a different question..

ARE the following plans ok with you?

FACT: If I do not have insurance I will be fined $2,500

FACT: If I do not pay the fine I could be jailed

FACT: I will pay for OBAMA Care now and not receive any benefits until 2014

FACT: Pre-existing conditions will still be an issue until 2014, but I am paying for them not to be now.
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Yes. I’m OK with them. In that: these facts are better than the current state of healthcare under the current (soon “former”) law.

This reform could have been SO MUCH better if Republicans had worked with Obama, rather than do any/everything to stop it. But it’s better—even the facts you list—than what we have now.

As for your “one guy” comment: yes, he’s one guy. But for God’s sake, the nuts of your party have to start listening to the (few) voices of reason in your party, or your party is going to continue it’s decline into the political abyss!
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Enjoy your health care that you can be put in jail for if you as a FREE AMERICAN decide you do not want it..

Guess in your AmeriKa it works..

In mine it is bullshit..
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I’ll take your word for it on your compliment. I haven’t yet seen “the best” here to prove you right. :P

lancaster -

That is correct. Researching rebuttals always takes longer than spitting out random diatribe. That’s how the right has tied up the left for so long. But Obama has learned how to rope-a-dope them very successfully.
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Skye is like all of them.. Makes comments and refuses to support them..

But at leas with him-her there is intellect..

with LameCaster… not so much..
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That fine may be challenged in court. And it may be struck down.

I’d much rather we don’t fine people without insurance. But if they ever walk into an emergency room for any reason whatsoever, we bill the F*CK out of them—leans on their businesses and houses—until they pay.
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Period.
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Have a nice evening..
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We may have to adjust. Like I said: no penalties, nothing mandatory, but you’ll be billed—at high individual rates—for every Q-Tip if you ever need to use the health care system, emergency or not.
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WalGreens stated today that they will no longer accept MEDICARE prescription orders

31 states are prepared to go to court

21 states suing over the CornHusker bribe..

Where are the doctors coming from to take care of 32 million new patients?

It is estimated that up to 40% of all medical groups will stop accepting Medicare and Medical .. there is no statute that mandates they accept..

And this is just the start… it is going to get ugly..
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SCREW you GW
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Medicaid’s low payments have been a problem for a long time. Many hospitals—including the new Palmdale medical center—refuse to take it, because the low payments.

THANK GOD this new law addresses it. In a few years, Medicaid payments will increase by something like 20 percent, bringing it in par with Medicare.
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Clinton’s budget then ushered in the longest continuous economic expansion in history, aka the Clinton Miracle Economy. While creating a surplus to boot.

Of course, Republicans weren’t worried about being on the wrong side of history then—they just change their version of history to deny it happened—and they’re not worried about being on the wrong side of history today.

Which they are.
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Luck of the Irish :-)

Nice Try Sky.
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LMAO
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Where are the doctors coming from to take care of 32 million new patients?

And you are ok with this bill covering Illegals??
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If I could make history up as I go, I’d never put myself on the wrong side of it either. LOL
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This has been a very personal issue for me. I have excellent health insurance but I have a very lengthy lists of serious and catostropic illnesses I live with each day. Tonight, I will sleep peacefully knowing the the day will not come when my insurance company could decide to cancel my coverage due to my medical history. I rest easily now knowing that my healthcare and financial stability are safe for my future.
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Socialism lives well in Obama’s admin.
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All your democrat leaders were for the war. Take it out on them. I had no say. Only problem I had was Bush took to long to get at it. Ofourse I understand planning takes time.
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Why didn’t all presidents prior to Obama just print a trillion and spend it on the homeless, potholes, medical care, hand it over to all businesses that struggle?

I just recorded a new episode of D.H. and it’s time to watch.
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So, should we start calling Teabaglers Treasonists now too? I seem to have lost the connection between the Christians and ‘eye for an eye’….lost in translation.
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Potholes, what potholes? Just go shopping.
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or this might be the scariest thing uv ever said here!
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Try 8 years of Bush on the other side of the aisle.
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If this bill is so great why should they be worried about the next election?
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You are ok with this health bill that will:

FACT: If I do not have insurance I will be fined $2,500

FACT: If I do not pay the fine I could be jailed

FACT: I will pay for OBAMA Care now and not receive any benefits until 2014

FACT: Pre-existing conditions will still be an issue until 2014, but I am paying for them not to be now.

And it is UNCONSTITUTIONAL for this Government to force me to purchase Health Care..

Tell me, all you who embrace this health care, how do you reconcile it?

38 states are going to court over it
21 states going to court over the CornHusker bribe

If this was so incredible how come so many Attorney Generals are prepared to go to court???

And I ALREADY posted that this mess was made possible because GW stunk the place up in his last 4 years..

His inability, just like “Ahnold” to stick to conservative values so angered the American public that these traitors were elected..
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In the final bill..

Insurance Company Premium controls was deleted.. so they can still charge what they want to..

And here is a great idea.. New Drugs on the market.. this bill makes it illegal to create a less expensive generic drug for 12 years!!

Talk about bribes.. Unbelievable..

And yet the LIBS still cheer..

Blindfolds are working..
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How is MAKING me purchase Insurance or go to jail ok with you??

Virginia filed legal action against this bill this morning.

33 more states to follow.
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A DEMOCRATIC Governor.
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Note how all the “Hoorah” for Obama Care libs refuse to respond to any of the points raised.. Instead they will continue to rant about Bush, etc..

LOOK at the FACTS posted and think.

It really is that simple..
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This bill is such a joke.
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And how can they rant about loss of freedoms under GW Bush but yet when FORCED to purchase a product by their Government they smile?

Boggles the mind.
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NOW we know why they have been so silent.. a 12 year moratorium on the creation of generic,much less expensive drugs, to counter new ones in this bill.

Yet another bribe..
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PK, can you believe that they will be hiring 1000’s of IRS agents to check on you monthly? LOL Why don’t we do that for those without DL’s and car insurance? Talk about personal intrusion into someones life.
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Libs have the AmeriKa they wanted…
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The reason is the competition for them was extinguished for 12 years!!! Make a new drug… and NO ONE can create a counter drug that is less expensive.

Another OBAMA bribe..
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Make your appointments for Mammograms, Blood tests, Colonoscopy’s, etc.. NOW

Next up.. you will be told you do not need then until you are much older..
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No thanks to the Hypocrite Party. (I meant to say Liberal Party)

The Hypocrite Party wants redistribution, as their leadless furor has said. He is their Robin Hood. Why work, or pay for anything, when you can collect welfare, foodstamps, get free health care, section 8?

You’d think Robin Hood would want to cut all the corruption first, then have his ‘Print Trillion Giveaways’.

Wonder what percentage of Americans that are living off of taxpayers are cheating the system. Would 35% be a good guess? I really don’t know, but I do know it’s many. But socialism is their gravy train.
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Remember GW BUSH, his drunken sailor spending and inability to care about the GOP as he stampeded thru his final 4 years catapulted these traitors into office..
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But going into an Obama zombie state is like wearing blinders. It limits ones abilities. And breaking them out of that trance is difficult.
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YOU voted him in…TWICE. And if Bush could run vs Obama in 12, you’d vote for Bush again. “Well he’s better than Obama (or any other Dem)” you’d say.

At least be men and defend your POS presidential choices. Don’t duck like cowards.

I know. You can’t make a case in support of Bush, the worst of the worst. But you voted for him and would again!

And American suffers for your biased ignorance.
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If the voters were mad about Bush and the Republican spending spree, they are going to be real pissed about Obama’s in November.
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I think these business owners, who are not dumb people, many of whom take interest in the Tea Party movement, and who have good sound financial sense, see this bill as a detriment to the success of their businesses.

The Bush tax breaks helped business owners employ more people on the simple notion that they had more money to put into their business. Most of the business owners now know that they are going to lose those tax breaks, be forced to provide insurance, and are going to have to reduce the size of their work force to make these payments.
I don’t think that many business owners would jump on the Tea Party band wagon without first researching what they could about the bill.

As for you referring to me and other conservative Reps as voting for Bush twice, yes I did. Would I vote for Bush over Obama, you bet ya.

Watch the you tube video of the kool aid drinker woman who was overjoyed when Obama got elected, “I will never have to pay my mortgage or pay for gas.”
This Health Bill does not give Americans a free ride. A lot of Obama supporters think they are going to get free medical insurance. They are going to pay for it. It will be a very small minority of people who qualify for the free ride, and you won’t be one of them.

When your premiums rise because you are paying for everyone of those 30 million who do not have insurance, I don’t think you will be have such a good outlook about this Health Care Bill, Pelosi, and Obama.
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Agreed, Mr. Holmes. Bush sucks, and Hussein swallows, and even Libercrits like yourself fully understand that.

Bush became Mr. Bigbucks his final 2 years in office, and also around that time, his open border stance became clearly evident. And he didn’t do nearly enough the fight off the Hypocrite Party when they fought against regulating Fanny and Freddie.

If Bush were able to run against Obama in 2012, you and many other Libercrits would vote for the bigger spender, no doubt.

That’s what the Hyporcite Party does. Now, skyeye, go fetch some medical insurance before you get fined. Or better still, become illegal, and you don’t have to pay for jack.
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How he knows who anyone would vote for IF, is a sophomoric comment with zero credibility attached to it..

AMAZING the LIBS in here are so quiet and their refusal to respond to one single question or comment speaks volumes.
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Ba-dum-dum
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I count about 6 questions you have been asked to respond to in order to clarify your points…

Ever gonna answer them?? Huh?
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They are however cemented in ideological bigotry that blinds them to real facts and allows them to bathe in invented truths that fit their mantras.

And then when asked to elaborate and clarify, you get avoidance, silence, change orf topic or attacked..

They are extremely consisistent… Read the posts on this thread for example.
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