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Patricia K. Shaw
Wednesday, September 09 2009 - 03:33 PM
Fallen Heroes
You are cordially invited to attend the:
What: We will honor those who lost their lives on September 11, 2001 and honor our recent fallen Firefighters, Captain Tedmund Hall and Specialist Arnaldo Quinones
When: Friday, September 11, at 9:45 am
Where: Antelope Valley Mall (main entrance)
cherritomato says...
I’ll be at RRex at 10:00 a.m. to honor Javier Olvera, the student who died in Afghanistan recently and possibly at Highland prior to that for another service member who didn’t survive a May car crash-I’m wondering when it ends and our young people will all reach old age.
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roxi says...
Yes, cherri – we as mothers wonder when all the killing will stop. It seems that wars have become outdated, not the modern solution to conflict. With the technology of un-manned drones capable of seeking out the enemies-why are our sons and daughters still dying in undeclared wars & conflicts? The conflicts today seem to be fought for coporations’ freedom – corporations posing as individuals, with war giving them the right to access to whatever they want – usually oil.
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Have Faith says...
Roxi, tell it like it is. War is hell. God bless these young ones and God help us to live in peace.
Pk, Jim ledford, thanks for your work to honor those who sacrifice fir us.
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Martel says...
I am very very upset with this now soon to be new war in afghanistan, from one war to another. When are the American people going to stand up and say we are tired of sending our young to fight for nothing. Why are all the democrats that were against the war in iraq now silent?
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WhatCrime? says...
Support Our Troops By Bringing Them Home
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PKShaw says...
When the Taliban controlled Afghanistan, women were not allowed to go to school, wear make-up, fix their hair, go outside unaccompanied by a father, brother, or husband. They were routinely beaten and raped . . .
Roxi says "The conflicts today seem to be fought for coporations’[sic] freedom – corporations posing as individuals, . . . "
Martel says “When are the American people going to stand up and say we are tired of sending our young to fight for nothing.”
I ask all of you to think about how the world would be if the Taliban were allowed to grow in strength, if their ideas were spread throughout the world? Is this what you want for your wives and daughters?
These aren’t corporations they’re fighting for, and there is no oil to be exploited. These are living, breathing human women who have been stripped of every shred of individual freedom. Is that okay with you?
I support our troops because they are living through hell so I don’t have to.
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annette tappa says...
Problem is PK, they don’t see it that way. They believe and only believe that we should have left them alone. They think that that’s Afghanistan’s problem, not ours. But I agree with you…
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No Spin says...
PK
Absolutely! So well stated.. war is hell but we cannot simply hide our heads in the sand…
Roxi and the other bleeding heart Libs don’t get it now and never will…
and you know what? I don’t care anymore.. Nothing you tell them will change them until the day a bomb is dropped into their backyard..
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PKShaw says...
My heart breaks every time I hear that we’ve lost another Soldier, and again when I watch documentaries of the conditions they live under and I too so want this nonsense to end.
But then I think back to the days leading up to WWII and wonder what our country would be like today if our Soldiers hadn’t gone to Germany or didn’t drop those bombs on Japan. Estimated US military casualties were over 300,000 people who all had relatives and friends who wanted them returned in one piece, yet they understood what had to be done and that these deaths were the price paid to live in freedom.
Americans may not understand why our Soldiers are over there doing what they do but talk to the Soldiers themselves – I guarantee you they do.
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No Spin says...
And let us not forget that men and women chose the military as an profession knowing the risks, same as Law enforcement… So every time I hear this “WE are sending our young men and women to war” it puzzles me.. They are in the MILITARY, what would you like them to do, Build Playhouses??
That would be like choosing Law Enforcement but never expecting them to take out their firearm or get into a fight… Come on people..
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No Spin says...
Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. The statesman who yields to war fever must realize that once the signal is given, he is no longer the master of policy but the slave of unforeseeable and uncontrollable events.
Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
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PKShaw says...
Good quote, N/S.
I blame it on television. In less than an hour every murderer is caught; every human drama concludes with a happy ending.
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roxi says...
Ns:So every time I hear this “WE are sending our young men and women to war” it puzzles me.. They are in the MILITARY, what would you like them to do, Build Playhouses??
Right, they’re not over there to build playhouses – yet we have a ‘green zone’ in Iraq that we paid for, that we know nothing about. Somehow, I think the military budget has gone a bit haywire. Yes, I get war. I get it big time. Having lost over 30 graduates from my H.S. class from the Viet Nam conflict-I get it big time.
I can’t think of anyone, anywhere who has not been touched by war and not changed by it. So, that’s a silly statement.
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roxi says...
Pk:These aren’t corporations they’re fighting for, and there is no oil to be exploited.
There’s a pipeline that’s wanted from Georgia …. that needs to flow thru Afghanistan.
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PKShaw says...
Like I said, if you want to know what this war is about, talk to the ones fighting it.
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No Spin says...
I am not an Obama fan but I give him props for his decision to stay put in Afghanistan..
Interesting to me is that Afghanistan is not getting the Press, even though things are not going well, at all that the LIBERAL media gave Iraq and skewered Bush when they were…
I heard somewhere that Afghanistan just had the worse month, in regards to fatalities, then ever before… But no coverage? Have any of you heard or seen anything on it?
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No Spin says...
Not a silly statement at all roxi except to those who simply want us to “TALK” to these animals who would cut your head off in a second rather than listen to your whining..
You and SoCa come in her screaming about the reason behind these wars not knowing what the hell you are talking about..How easy it is for you and other to marginalize why these brave men and women are there.. “It’s all about big corporations and Oil”.. BULLSHIT…
What you NEVER remember is that because we are over there you can still post your sludge… It is about keeping this country safe and protecting our freedoms.. How quickly the likes of roxi, SoCa and lancaster can simply toss that idea to the sewer and replace it with absurd notions that our President would send our children to their deaths over oil!!
You and others who post this crap disgust me.. You have ZERO credibility because you never possess the facts and you ALWAYS leave out the true story..
TO Even think that Bush or Obama would continue to allow our brave men and women risk their lives over oil and profit is absolutely insane..
But I am sure you will come back with some cut and paste sewage to prove some stupid point… in reality we are still there, Obama added more troops in Afghanistan, and I hope we continue to kick their asses over there so they do not come back here..
Watching the 911 tributes this morning reinforces my strength in KNOWING that this country and this President, along with GW Bush, are so damn right to continue the fight to rid the world of this vermin…
God Bless Our Troops, God Bless those who perished on 911 and God Bless America… the Greatest country on earth..
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No Spin says...
WhatCrime? says…
Support Our Troops By Bringing Them Home
WOW… brilliance in here.. Bring them all home is the only way to support them… BRILLIANT..
Yea.. let us abandon every base of operations we have anywhere not in the US…
Yea.. let us abandon every base of operations we have anywhere not in the US…Let us recall very USN ship not stationed in the US..
Yea.. let us abandon every base of operations we have anywhere not in the US…Let us recall very USN ship not stationed in the US..Let us recall every USAF fighter that patrols the skies outside of the USA..
Yea.. let us abandon every base of operations we have anywhere not in the US…Let us recall very USN ship not stationed in the US..Let us recall every USAF fighter that patrols the skies outside of the USA..Let us bring every soldier who has been sent to a country other than ours home..
Yea.. let us abandon every base of operations we have anywhere not in the US…Let us recall very USN ship not stationed in the US..Let us recall every USAF fighter that patrols the skies outside of the USA..Let us bring every soldier who has been sent to a country other than ours home..BRILLIANT Strategy… I LIKE IT!! And I support the idea.. AS SOON as the world decides we all are Human Beings who have the right to live and breath the way we CHOOSE to…
Yea.. let us abandon every base of operations we have anywhere not in the US…Let us recall very USN ship not stationed in the US..Let us recall every USAF fighter that patrols the skies outside of the USA..Let us bring every soldier who has been sent to a country other than ours home..BRILLIANT Strategy… I LIKE IT!! And I support the idea.. AS SOON as the world decides we all are Human Beings who have the right to live and breath the way we CHOOSE to…AS SOON as the animals who are bent on destroying anyone or anything who honors freedom are burning in hell..
Yea.. let us abandon every base of operations we have anywhere not in the US…Let us recall very USN ship not stationed in the US..Let us recall every USAF fighter that patrols the skies outside of the USA..Let us bring every soldier who has been sent to a country other than ours home..BRILLIANT Strategy… I LIKE IT!! And I support the idea.. AS SOON as the world decides we all are Human Beings who have the right to live and breath the way we CHOOSE to…AS SOON as the animals who are bent on destroying anyone or anything who honors freedom are burning in hell..AS SOON as this world is able to act as one and peace becomes the mantra for all…
Yea.. let us abandon every base of operations we have anywhere not in the US…Let us recall very USN ship not stationed in the US..Let us recall every USAF fighter that patrols the skies outside of the USA..Let us bring every soldier who has been sent to a country other than ours home..BRILLIANT Strategy… I LIKE IT!! And I support the idea.. AS SOON as the world decides we all are Human Beings who have the right to live and breath the way we CHOOSE to…AS SOON as the animals who are bent on destroying anyone or anything who honors freedom are burning in hell..AS SOON as this world is able to act as one and peace becomes the mantra for all…AS SOON as that happens, I will be there with you “WhatCrime” fighting to bring them all home…
Yea.. let us abandon every base of operations we have anywhere not in the US…Let us recall very USN ship not stationed in the US..Let us recall every USAF fighter that patrols the skies outside of the USA..Let us bring every soldier who has been sent to a country other than ours home..BRILLIANT Strategy… I LIKE IT!! And I support the idea.. AS SOON as the world decides we all are Human Beings who have the right to live and breath the way we CHOOSE to…AS SOON as the animals who are bent on destroying anyone or anything who honors freedom are burning in hell..AS SOON as this world is able to act as one and peace becomes the mantra for all…AS SOON as that happens, I will be there with you “WhatCrime” fighting to bring them all home…Until then, unfortunately, it is not only not possible, it is in insanely stupid
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PKShaw says...
It was a beautiful ceremony today at the Fallen Heroes Memorial and wonderful to see many of those who worked on it in one way or another like Ray Cunneff, Elena Montogmery, Dennis Persons, Sandy Corrales-Eneix, Debbie Dino, Tom Lackey, Vince Dino, Ron Emard, and a very special lady that I met for the first time today, Allie Aceves, who designed the tops of the monuments.
Several people echoed the same sentiment – how lucky we are as a community to have such a Memorial. I say how fortunate we are to live in a community with people like these, and so many others, who made it happen.
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lancaster says...
of course we sent our childern to die for oil. on such a day as this one shouldn’t lie to one self. there was no threat to our FREEDOM FROM SADDAM. HE WAS OUR BITCH. SAME WITH BIN LADAN.
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annette tappa says...
Wow lancaster you’re a sad individual…
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Ray Cunneff says...
It was an extraordinary event, much larger and more emotional than I’d expected. And, like you PK, I was very impressed with the turnout, not just the dignitaries, the families of the fallen, the firefighters and EMT’s, but all those people who helped make the memorial itself a reality or just came to show their support.
We can all be proud of our community.
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mattkeltner says...
Has anyone ever given any thought to holding these events in the evening when more people are able to attend?
It seems like almost every AV political gathering, with the exception of very few, is held in the morning when nobody else in the community can enjoy them.
I don’t think I’m the only one who shares in this sentiment.
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lancaster says...
we as americans saw 9/11 and just wanted to kill something. which worked well for cheney. because he wanted to kill something too!
and now we have 2 wars that will take thousands more in life(ours and their’s) to extract us from the horror we allowed to happen. we would still be able to post our SLUDGE IF WE HAD NEVER GONE INTO ETHIER COUNTRY.
and now we have hundreds of thousands more dead.
clinton tried to get bin laden with police action in somalia, and was stopped by the same people who gave us the contract with america.
bush and cheney have got us nothing except death and 2 impossible situations that there will NEVER BE ANY EASY ANSWER FOR.
AS YOU WRAP YOURSELF’S IN THE FLAG, AND PRETEND THAT YOU CARE FOR THE TROOPS, NEVER FORGET THE ONLY WAY TO TRULY LOOK OUT FOR THEM IS TO GET THEM OUT OF THE HORRID SITUATION WE HAVE PUT THEM IN.
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Lew Stults says...
Patricia Shaw is very good about thanking others who made today’s ceremony possible. All of us need to give thanks for all the work that Patricia has done on this event for the last couple of years. She has been a tireless organizer and hands on worker for this event and many others throughout the Antelope Valley. Thank you Patricia, for all of your good work.
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Lew Stults says...
Matt, the hundreds of firefighter and law enforcement people that show up in the morning can’t be there in the evening.
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PKShaw says...
You are so very right Ray, and I neglected to mention Steve Hofbauer who worked on the fundraiser and attended today.
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mattkeltner says...
Lancaster,
I understand where you are coming from.
I choose to use September 11th as a day of reflection. For example, I wonder what it was that made people so angry that they wanted to bring down a major centre of finance for the West? Then I think of the imperialism and the financial and cultural punishment inflicted upon people who have dared get in the way of the U.S. and it’s corporate elite, and then it becomes rather plain.
For me, there’s nothing to rejoice in about today. People have died and will continue to die so that a small few can continue to get rich. That’s the cold, hard and very sad truth.
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PKShaw says...
Matt, I believe the time for today’s ceremony was set to correspond with the time the Trade Center Towers were hit.
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PKShaw says...
A special thanks to Ray for remembering to bring a camera – especially because I never do!
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lancaster says...
matt
there is alot lot of truth in the saying think globaly act locally.
we the people of america have to take alot of the blame for allowing this to play out the way it did.
and today is a great day to remember OUR responsiblitys to our troops, and to promise to speak out should they ever be used in this shameless way again.
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annette tappa says...
Thanks PK for all that you do in Palmdale…
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PKShaw says...
Mr. Keltner, one of these days I’m going to try and explain to you that there is nothing sinful, evil, or shameful about making money; why it is so very necessary; and why it should be celebrated, but not today.
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lancaster says...
there is something very sinful in making money off the destruction of others!
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PKShaw says...
Lew, could you please speak to the Congressman about declaring September 11th a national holiday? This would allow working people to be able to participate in cermonies honoring our First Responders. Thank you.
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No Spin says...
lancaster…
A new low even for you… congratulations on elevating your self to below sewage..
I thought about attempting to have you prove your allegations and ask you what your idea of an alternative plan for our military is, but I am in no mood for your bullshit..
So just keep posting your vile.. I am sure someone (SoCa, or roxi), will ride in here to support your hatred…
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mattkeltner says...
Mrs. Shaw,
I agree that there’s nothing “sinful” about deriving a profit from one’s time and labour. There is something very insideous, however, when humans are used as canon fodder so that a profit can be made. I think there’s a big difference.
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No Spin says...
Matt
Are you actually suggesting that 911 was our fault? Are you actually defending those animals that ran 737’s into the towers, the Pentagon and tried to ram the White House?
Please tell me I am missing your point..
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No Spin says...
Matt??
WTF? Please explain who used who as fodder… what the hell are you talking about??
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mattkeltner says...
No Spin,
I look at it two ways:
A.) You can put blinders on and always pretend that everything is A-Okay, as long as you’re not personally effected, it’s easy to overlook the way that other cultures and people have been treated under economic imperialism.
Sept. 11th, 2001 is a result of what happens when complacency and lack of awareness and concern reaches it’s peak.
or,
B.) You can take your blinders off and use this time for introspection and maybe ponder why things happened as they did.
The choice is yours.
Feigning outrage over someone offering a different viewpoint doesn’t do any good, however.
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lancaster says...
do u understand that 9/11 had nothing to do with iraq?
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No Spin says...
lancaster
I don’t give a damn if 911 had anything to do with IRAQ.. I could care less…
Over 3,000 innocent Americans died that day.. Mother’s, Fathers, Aunts, Uncles, Grandmothers, Grandfathers, Brothers and Sisters died that day because Animals decided they needed to..
That is all I care about lancaster..
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No Spin says...
Ok..Let me understand how this works..
If I do not agree with your OPINION, I am blind…and I am “feigning outrage”
or.. I can agree with you and then I am “cool”…
or.. I can agree with you and then I am “cool”…Ah ok.. I see how this works.. thanks comrade..
or.. I can agree with you and then I am “cool”…Ah ok.. I see how this works.. thanks comrade..Hey Matt.. here is a shock.. In MY opinion, you could NOT be more wrong..
or.. I can agree with you and then I am “cool”…Ah ok.. I see how this works.. thanks comrade..Hey Matt.. here is a shock.. In MY opinion, you could NOT be more wrong..In MY OPINION, this country needs to be respected for who we are and what we stand for..
or.. I can agree with you and then I am “cool”…Ah ok.. I see how this works.. thanks comrade..Hey Matt.. here is a shock.. In MY opinion, you could NOT be more wrong..In MY OPINION, this country needs to be respected for who we are and what we stand for..In MY OPINION, this is the greatest country on earth and not perfect..
or.. I can agree with you and then I am “cool”…Ah ok.. I see how this works.. thanks comrade..Hey Matt.. here is a shock.. In MY opinion, you could NOT be more wrong..In MY OPINION, this country needs to be respected for who we are and what we stand for..In MY OPINION, this is the greatest country on earth and not perfect..In MY OPINION, we do more to create peace on this earth in a year than most countries do in a hundred..
or.. I can agree with you and then I am “cool”…Ah ok.. I see how this works.. thanks comrade..Hey Matt.. here is a shock.. In MY opinion, you could NOT be more wrong..In MY OPINION, this country needs to be respected for who we are and what we stand for..In MY OPINION, this is the greatest country on earth and not perfect..In MY OPINION, we do more to create peace on this earth in a year than most countries do in a hundred..Those are MY OPINIONS Matt.. That is how MY America is supposed to work..
or.. I can agree with you and then I am “cool”…Ah ok.. I see how this works.. thanks comrade..Hey Matt.. here is a shock.. In MY opinion, you could NOT be more wrong..In MY OPINION, this country needs to be respected for who we are and what we stand for..In MY OPINION, this is the greatest country on earth and not perfect..In MY OPINION, we do more to create peace on this earth in a year than most countries do in a hundred..Those are MY OPINIONS Matt.. That is how MY America is supposed to work..Your America is obviously much different than mine.. Interesting how we can both express our differences and not be beheaded for them…
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Lew Stults says...
Patricia,
There has been quite a bit of support for a first responders holiday to be declared for September 11th. However, it is just to close to Labor Day, which is another national holiday.
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lancaster says...
you were the one saying that i sunk to a new low. your the one who has no respect for those who disagree with u.
and you don’t care if iraq was involved or not. we still have people dying there. our childern! and you don’t care!
this is what i mean when i say we the people are to blame for the incredible cluster f##ck we find ourselves in today.
because people like NS don’t care if it’s right or wrong what we do.
no one is standing UP for the assholes that attacked us on 9/11.
what we are saying is our responce was wrong and costly. but mostly wrong.
we’ve destroyed a country and lost thousands of this country’s childern.
AND FOR WHAT???
so we could protect only one thing when we got there. the oil piplines?
so we could take pictures of saddam in his pantys?
15 of the highjackers were saudies?
this is not some liberal FEELINGS!
THESE ARE FACTS.
AND AS LONG AS WE INDULGE IN WILLFUL IGNORANCE THIS WILL CONTINUE!
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No Spin says...
lancaster..
I give up.. re-tool what I post and others post so that it fits your hatred of anything positive about this country, lancaster..
Keep showing all of us your absolute disgust with this country and what it does and stands for..
Interesting how your hatred for Afghanistan and Iraq stops with Bush even though Obama added troops and has not pulled them out of Iraq..
So it seems as if you choose your vitriol based on who you LIKE, not the truth… Kinda inconsistent, ain’t ya??
Nice spin in the whole 911 comments I made, where you pathetically tried to make me out to be someone who does not care about the deaths in Iraq.. “Because people like NS don’t care if it’s right or wrong what we do”
LOL..
Let me try this again.. In MY OPINION what we did in IRAQ was the right thing to do for the right reasons.. PERIOD..
BTW: How come you did not mention that recently the deaths in Afghanistan under OBAMA have been the highest ever??
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Have Faith says...
Spinout has his reality. What repub administrations do is good. Period. Patriotism is what’s important, regardless. USA corporate cultural crap and racist exploitation be damned. We’re the USofA love us or well kick your ass. Don’t we get it? Lol
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No Spin says...
Oh and lancaster…
Which country did we destroy? I must have missed that Keith Overbite broadcast..
Please enlighten me..
Thanks Buddy..
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Have Faith says...
Sometimes I think our founding fathers and some of the folks who passed on Sept 11 are rolling in their graves hearing what people couldn’t (yes nospin the phrase is couldn’t) care less about.
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No Spin says...
Hey Faith..
Show me where I posted that ONLY Repub administrations do good.. My memory ain’t what it used to be..
And also.. detail this exploitation you mentioned.. who are we exploiting in this FREE Country versus what Saddam did in Irag, Chavez does in Yugoslavia, Qudafi does in Libya, that nut bag does in Iran, the munchkin does in North Korea, etc…
Thanks…..
btw.. why don’t you do some research and see which country leads in providing help to countries that ask or have suffered.. Look at Africa for starters and then get back to me, ok??
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No Spin says...
Yep.. I am Smith..
Yep.. I am Smith..Oh wait.. Nope.. I am Rex..
Yep.. I am Smith..Oh wait.. Nope.. I am Rex..Oh wait.. I am Larry Hobson..
Yep.. I am Smith..Oh wait.. Nope.. I am Rex..Oh wait.. I am Larry Hobson..Damn it.. sorry.. I forgot who I am..
it will come to me soon.. I promise
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No Spin says...
HF
How do you conclude I don’t care about those who perished on 911 when I posted this that you read:
-————-
“09/11/09 – 03:44 PM
No Spin says…
lancaster
I don’t give a damn if 911 had anything to do with IRAQ.. I could care less…
Over 3,000 innocent Americans died that day.. Mother’s, Fathers, Aunts, Uncles, Grandmothers, Grandfathers, Brothers and Sisters died that day because Animals decided they needed to..
That is all I care about lancaster..
-————-
So HF.. walk me thru how you came up with your dazzling analysis..
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Have Faith says...
My impression came from “Libs are officially nuts” and “libs are pathetic” or “name me one policy implemented by this canal that has worked” and reference to “sheeple”.
Matt is right, you don’t want to see the world a different way. US allowed corporate exploitation and cultural arrogance in Iran, ended in revolution. And do you forget we trained bin laden to help us against ussr. And we propped up dictators including saddam Hussein. The people blamed us (US) more than saddam. Turn a blind eye and we will continue the insanity of doing the same things and expecting different results.
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marino says...
Iraq and Afghanastan felt the rath. A great example has been set.
lancaster says...
we’ve destroyed iraq.
i hate that we’re in Afghanistan.
what u don’t seem to get NS is there is no turning back when u start a war.
we concentrated on iraq after 9/11 not
Afghanistan. we allowed every terroist in the region to go and make it their
training ground. why don’t i jump on obama for sending more troops there?
because now we’re stuck stabilizing a country we should have never gone to to begin with.
these are complex problems that were 7 yrs in the making and there will be no easy answers in bringing this horror to a close.
but u will keep bitchen about how obama hasn’t FIXED the situation in 7 months.
and just because i don’t indulge in blind faith like u doesn’t mean i don’t love my country.
i would argue that i’m more patriotic then u in the fact that i’m willing to see the ugly truth and speak out against it, vs. your hiding ur head in the sand, saying no no don’t tell me these bad things.
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No Spin says...
HF.. Matt is incorrect..
HF.. Matt is incorrect..I have LOOKED at every angle possible.. I have researched and asked questions.. I did determine my opinion NOT based on ideological bigotry like some do..
HF.. Matt is incorrect..I have LOOKED at every angle possible.. I have researched and asked questions.. I did determine my opinion NOT based on ideological bigotry like some do..I base my opinions on what I determine for ME is the truth… period..
HF.. Matt is incorrect..I have LOOKED at every angle possible.. I have researched and asked questions.. I did determine my opinion NOT based on ideological bigotry like some do..I base my opinions on what I determine for ME is the truth… period..I am not a blind man who only sees what he chooses to see.. I am not blinded by any party or any person.. I know that we are all Americans, with FAULTS…
HF.. Matt is incorrect..I have LOOKED at every angle possible.. I have researched and asked questions.. I did determine my opinion NOT based on ideological bigotry like some do..I base my opinions on what I determine for ME is the truth… period..I am not a blind man who only sees what he chooses to see.. I am not blinded by any party or any person.. I know that we are all Americans, with FAULTS…I know that GW Bush made some horrible decisions and have posted that opinion here over and over again..
HF.. Matt is incorrect..I have LOOKED at every angle possible.. I have researched and asked questions.. I did determine my opinion NOT based on ideological bigotry like some do..I base my opinions on what I determine for ME is the truth… period..I am not a blind man who only sees what he chooses to see.. I am not blinded by any party or any person.. I know that we are all Americans, with FAULTS…I know that GW Bush made some horrible decisions and have posted that opinion here over and over again..But most importantly is… I know how much I love my country and though like every single one of us, she makes mistakes…
HF.. Matt is incorrect..I have LOOKED at every angle possible.. I have researched and asked questions.. I did determine my opinion NOT based on ideological bigotry like some do..I base my opinions on what I determine for ME is the truth… period..I am not a blind man who only sees what he chooses to see.. I am not blinded by any party or any person.. I know that we are all Americans, with FAULTS…I know that GW Bush made some horrible decisions and have posted that opinion here over and over again..But most importantly is… I know how much I love my country and though like every single one of us, she makes mistakes…But I knew yesterday, I know today and will know tomorrow that The United States Of America was yesterday, is today and will be tomorrow the finest country on earth… PERIOD
HF.. Matt is incorrect..I have LOOKED at every angle possible.. I have researched and asked questions.. I did determine my opinion NOT based on ideological bigotry like some do..I base my opinions on what I determine for ME is the truth… period..I am not a blind man who only sees what he chooses to see.. I am not blinded by any party or any person.. I know that we are all Americans, with FAULTS…I know that GW Bush made some horrible decisions and have posted that opinion here over and over again..But most importantly is… I know how much I love my country and though like every single one of us, she makes mistakes…But I knew yesterday, I know today and will know tomorrow that The United States Of America was yesterday, is today and will be tomorrow the finest country on earth… PERIODoh..and no matter what you or anyone else posts in here, that OPINION will never change
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No Spin says...
Lancaster is now in a position to GRADE me on my patriotism..OUTSTANDING
Lancaster claims IRAQ is destroyed.. Has anyone told the kids who now have schools to attend, or the women who can now walk the streets without fear of being raped on sight, or the millions who voted for the first time in their lives, that IRAQ no longer exists?
Maybe MSNBC can send some people pver ASAP… oh wait.. sorry.. OBAMA still has troops there and in Afghanistan..
Maybe someone should tell him about this destruction??
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whomeye says...
no spin, like any liberal, it’s their duty to "distract you and others from what’s really going on. he/she is fighting you to keep you from remembering 9/11.
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lancaster says...
ns, do u understand that iraq was the only secular country in the middle east. that women could not just get a education but could go to college?
that freedom of religion was something they enjoyed. that they had roads, electricity, water and most of the modern comforts we enjoy?
was saddam a bad man? yes.
did we make him? yes
are the iraqies better off today? no
and unlike u i get my news from multiple sources.
but if it makes u feel better to think
i listen to msnbc only, more power to u.
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No Spin says...
wow… all these Presidents are just as bad if not worse than BUSH! How dare they fight for our freedom!
Washington, George
Revolutionary War (1775-1783)
Adams, John and
Jefferson, Thomas
Tripolitan War (1801-1805)
against Tripoli (now in Libya)
Madison, James
War of 1812 – the Creek War (1813-14)
Monroe, James
Indian Wars of 1817-1821
First Seminole War (1817-18)
Jackson, Andrew “Old Hickory”
Black Hawk War (1832)
Second Seminole War (1835-42)
Tyler, John and Polk, James Knox Mexican War (1846-1848)
Pierce, Franklin
(1855-58)
Lincoln, Abraham
Civil War (1861-65)
Grant, Ulysses Simpson
Little Bighorn (1876)
Cleveland, (Stephen)Grover
Apache Wars against Geronimo (1876-1886)
McKinley, William
Spanish-American War (1898)
Wilson, (Thomas) Woodrow
World War I (1914-1918)
Roosevelt, Franklin Delano
World War II (1939-1945)
Truman, Harry S.
atomic bombing of Japan (1945)
Korean War (1950-1953)
Johnson, Lyndon Baines
escalated involvement in Vietnam War (1954-1975)
Reagan, Ronald Wilson
military involvements in Grenada, Central America, Lebanon, Libya
Bush, George Herbert Walker
Persian Gulf War I with Iraq (1990)
Clinton, William Jefferson “Bill”
Persian Gulf War II with Iraq (1999)
Serbia vs. Bosnia, Kosovo, Libya
Bush, George W.
Afgan War against the Talliban and Al Qaeda (2001…)
Iraq(2003…)
I demand an Investigation!! Get a committee appointed TODAY!
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No Spin says...
lancaster says:
“are the iraqies better off today? no”
Are kidding me?? LMFAO!!
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No Spin says...
And the comedy continues..
Lancaster Says:
“was saddam a bad man? yes.
did we make him? yes”
Ok.. I can’t stand it.. he is much funnier than Keith Overbite! someone gets this guy a Gig.. He is a star!
Ok.. I can’t stand it.. he is much funnier than Keith Overbite! someone gets this guy a Gig.. He is a star!My sides are hurting..
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lancaster says...
o’k NS,
u explain it to me. what have we got for these wars?
please, please tell me how it really is!
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No Spin says...
hey lancaster..
which one do you want me or anyone to start with?
And then when I do, your retort will be to attack the effort, this country for participating and the President who made the decision with CONGRESSIONAL approval to do so..
Funny how you ONLY slime Bush but Congress, who approved IRAQ and AFGHANISTAN gets a pass…
Excellent way to analyze.. only attack the people you do not like even though so many others participated in the decision..
Interesting how you choose who to exterminate with your posts.. a very odd formula that you use…
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Cagy Wolf says...
Poor men fight old rich men’s wars for them. America’s interest wasn’t served by many of these wars, the rich got richer and big business got even richer supplying arms.
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No Spin says...
Cagy
Some of the wars America has participated in can be called into question, there is little argument here..
However.. it is way too easy for SOME to place all wars in some silly little “ALL WARS ARE FOUGHT FOR PROFITS FOR RICH PEOPLE” basket that simply does not have any relationship with the facts.. it is like Obama suggesting how many jobs he has saved or how many would have been lost if not for the stimulus package.. IMPOSSIBLE to prove either way..
However.. it is way too easy for SOME to place all wars in some silly little “ALL WARS ARE FOUGHT FOR PROFITS FOR RICH PEOPLE” basket that simply does not have any relationship with the facts.. it is like Obama suggesting how many jobs he has saved or how many would have been lost if not for the stimulus package.. IMPOSSIBLE to prove either way..So to propose that a war is only waged for profit for big corporations is just as disingenuous if not more….
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roxi says...
NS left out Eisenhower & Kennedy in his list…maybe it didn’t copy/paste.
Anyway, Eisenhower warned this country in his farewell speech about allowing corporations take over our legislative branches with privatization. He also was the first to aid France in the Viet Nam conflict, 1954. Kennedy escalated Viet Nam, Bay of Pigs, etc.-then he pissed off someone and got it. As I remember when he was shot, his blood was red.
NS again: …war is hell but we cannot simply hide our heads in the sand…
Roxi and the other bleeding heart Libs don’t get it now and never will…
Spun seems to think that conservatives are the only ones that bleed ‘red’ blood-the rest of us, well it must be green! Right, how could liberals know anything about war being ‘hell’?
Show me a study where only conservatives have fought in all these wars!!!
Or is our experience lesser than yours? Maybe the liberals who died along with the conservatives in all these wars don’t count.
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roxi says...
NS left out Eisenhower & Kennedy in his list…maybe it didn’t copy/paste.
Anyway, Eisenhower warned this country in his farewell speech about allowing corporations take over our legislative branches with privatization. He also was the first to aid France in the Viet Nam conflict, 1954. Kennedy escalated Viet Nam, Bay of Pigs, etc.-then he pissed off someone and got it. As I remember when he was shot, his blood was red.
NS again: …war is hell but we cannot simply hide our heads in the sand…
Roxi and the other bleeding heart Libs don’t get it now and never will…
Spun seems to think that conservatives are the only ones that bleed ‘red’ blood-the rest of us, well it must be green! Right, how could liberals know anything about war being ‘hell’?
Show me a study where only conservatives have fought in all these wars!!!
Or is our experience lesser than yours? Maybe the liberals who died along with the conservatives in all these wars don’t count.
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No Spin says...
roxi
Another nice spin… lol… I have never hid my head in the sand.. but I also do not allow political bigotry to mandate how I think, feel or act..
AMERICANS, not dems or conservatives fight these wars roxi.. and I never said libs do not bleed the same as others nor did I suggest that they did not understand that war is hell.. I also never posted anywhere that the liberals who died don’t count..
Never posted it and have never thought it..
But you continue to invent the truth as you wish it to be and I will continue to correct you.. I have all night..
Next….. roxi? lancaster? anyone else?
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WhatCrime? says...
NS, Whats your opinion of George McGovern?
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No Spin says...
Now or when he got his ass handed to him when he ran for President?
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roxi says...
Duh. I’ll post it again:
NS again: …war is hell but we cannot simply hide our heads in the sand…
Roxi and the other bleeding heart Libs don’t get it now and never will…
So, you never said that.. “they did not understand that war is hell..”
Maybe it’s time for the meds – your memory’s slipping.
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No Spin says...
roxi
No need to get all schoolyard bully on me… geez…
I said you will NEVER get that we cannot hide our heads in the sand..
But you knew that…you silly girl…
Gee Whiz roxi, how you try so hard to be relevant.. don’t worry kiddo, you may just get there some day.. keep giving it the GOOD OLE American try!!
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No Spin says...
Speaking of McGovern..
NIXON
Electoral vote 520
States carried 49
Popular vote 47,168,710
Percentage 60.7%
McGOVERN
Not so good.. LOL
Electoral Vote: 17
States carried 1 + DC
Popular vote 29,173,222
Percentage 37.5%
I Loved him for making the election so easy to win… LOL
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138hwy says...
NS…
You are about the ONLY one giving time to these asshole fascist/liberals.
Why waste time with radical “truthers?”
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Randy Hall says...
138 I do it for the same reason. It’s like tapping the glass and watching the snake strike the glass. Fun a little scary but harmless.
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Have Faith says...
Lol. I said the same thing about you guys just yesterday.
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WhatCrime? says...
Very good, NS. Thank you for posting the election results from 1972. My question was, what do YOU THINK about George McGovern? Was he a left-wing, liberal, peacenick, appeaser to our enemies? Do you know anything about the man’s life and experiences? Are you aware he was a WWII bomber crew member that flew an extraordinary number of missions? Funny thing: Those that have served in the military, particularly in combat, seem to be the ones least likely to support war, except as a last resort. Those that never served seem to be quick to beat the drums of war. Strange. When did you serve in the military? I’m sure you are a veteran, judging by your comments. Please, tell us all about your experience in the US army.
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marino says...
Whatcrime,
A democrat from back then is no longer the democrat of today. I think Kennedy today would be a conservative.
Republicans status have changed also, and not for the better.
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WhatCrime? says...
NS< and before you call me names like a liberal, try this on for size. Obama recently described the war in Afghanistan a “war of necessity”.
I guess that means the Obama girls will be enlisting as soon as they are of age. I’m sure we’ll still be in Afghanistan by then. And your ignorance shows. You watched Maddow and expected objectivity? Ugh! Get a clue. MSNBC is unabashedly, and self admittedly liberal. Don’t waste your time with PMS-NBC. I’m Fox News all the way, so don’t call me a liberal. And I voted for McCain and support Sarah in 2012. Surprise you? According to many of our generals, there is no military solution to Afghanistan.
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marino says...
9/10/09 10:42PM
“Why are all the Democrats that were against the war in Iraq now silent?”
Easy one, Martel. Bush was president. Now that Obama is president, you hear practically nothing from the networks or Obama supporters.
The Iraq and Afghastan war are now acceptable. Wheras the war was highest priority on the hammer Bush liberal sites, it is now near the bottom of their list of priority hammering.
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lancaster says...
because we went in to Afghastan. once again, an impossible situation. there will be no easy solutions. ask the USSR. we on the left hope that obama is just trying to stabilize the country long enough for us to leave.
but u seem to have all the answers
MARINO. what would u do?
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lancaster says...
we were against bush because bush was a idiot.
but if u want to defend him…..
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Martel says...
Marino now you know why most of the time I dont participate in these discussions ,dems and rep are very weak with no truth or morals for the most of the bums, watching people fight over what happened, who did what to who is like watching 2 year olds fighting about there daddys. My daddys got a bigger one than your daddy ,There is not a pennys difference between them.
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Captain Jason says...
marino says…
“A democrat from back then is no longer the democrat of today. I think Kennedy today would be a conservative.
Republicans status have changed also, and not for the better."
I tend to agree with your assessment. From my recent experiences, Ronald Reagan would now be considered a liberal by the Republicans of today.
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Martel says...
pk, it is not our job to change the culture of a people or a nation, If we could help there thinking maybe you would have an argument, however we will not change a people who for thousands of years have beleived in that particular way of thinking, especially since it is tied to there religion.Pat lets get real why are we not in Africa where they gang rape mutilate torture there women daily or India where young daughters are sold daily, or girls in the eastern block of the world where almost half of the girls are sold into prostitution.Come on we have no business in anyone of those places I will remind you of the conditions of our own Country.There is plenty to do in our own back yard we need to look in the mirror right here.
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marino says...
Lancaster,
“but you seem to have all the answers”
I come here primarily for entertainment.
All my comments are are my opinions, along with a few facts. Where did I defend Bush?
All I’m sayin’ is that nobody seems to talking about the wars anymore. The liberal media doesn’t want to hammer Obama, for obvious reasons.
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lancaster says...
i listed 3 dems from congress fienstien, collins and shehaan(sp)
who are leading the charge against the buildup in afghanistan. what, fox not reporting on it?
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lancaster says...
marino, how did u know i just logged on?
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marino says...
Fox has always leaned to the right. They were never strongly against the war. I don’t hear much from them now, other than the occasional soldiers killed.
I didn’t know you just logged on. ESP perhaps.
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Cagy Wolf says...
NS as a student of history, wars are rarely fought for the right reasons and those that are fought period means riches for those that supply for the military. As a veteran I see many today fighting for the US only to be forgotten later ask any old veteran. WW2 and Korea US veterans came back to employment and cheap housing and affordable payments. Why? Because both Esinhower and Truman both deported millions of illegal aliens. But with Biden backing Boxer we’ll see more benefits for illegal aliens while americans continue to suffer job losses.
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Cagy Wolf says...
And if you think, all of the 9/11 attackers were illegal aliens.
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lancaster says...
it’s webb thats is working and passing legistration for our troops. a vet and a dem
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marino says...
NumbersUSA.com
Has prepared faxes to send to your congressmen, Reps, Governor, President, at the click of the button. Makes it easy and effective to stay involved.
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Cagy Wolf says...
Hi Marino
I just left numbersusa and sent some faxes until the site went weird.
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Cagy Wolf says...
The liberal media shoved Obama and McCain down our thoats, but hell I voted for McCain, should have stuck to my guns and voted for Ron Paul who would have been a great president that obeys the law, not like the scumbag we got in Obama and his thug cabinet.
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annette tappa says...
See you there…
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