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Friday, September 30 2011 - 07:47 PM
Socialist critique of the 'Third Industrial Revolution'
(Rather than to respond to Ray Cunneff’s The Third Industrial Revolution within that thread, I have elected to respond via the creation of this new thread for archival and retrieval purposes.)


*


Quoted from Jeremy Rifkin’s latest and aforementioned book entitled The Third Industrial Revolution: How Lateral Power is Transforming Energy, the Economy, and the World, published by Palgrave Macmillian, 2011.

Jeremy Rifkin: “Our industrial civilization is at a crossroads. Oil and the other fossil fuel energies that make up the industrial way of life are sunsetting, and the technologies made from and propelled by these energies are antiquated. The entire industrial infrastructure built off of fossil fuels is aging and in disrepair. The result is that unemployment is rising to dangerous levels all over the world. Governments, businesses and consumers are awash in debt and living standards are plummeting everywhere. A record one billion human beings – nearly one-seventh of the human race – face hunger and starvation.”

While the days of the world’s carbon-based economy are unquestionably numbered, and while I agree that certain technologies and all forms of fossil fule-fed propulsion are antiquated, precisely none of this can be rightfully attributed to any level of global unemployment.
Jeremy Rifkin is an economist and writer whom I respect and one whose work I often find to be informative. But his statement that peak oil, antiquated fossil fuel-based technologies and an aging industrial infrastructure have resulted in “unemployment…rising to dangerous levels all over the world” is a part of that which makes Jeremy Rifkin anything but the Marxist economist that he is sometimes referred to as.
Unemployment is the result of three basic factors: 1) the fact that, under capitalism, industrial production is geared toward satisfying the economic needs of capitalists rather than toward the satisfying of humankind’s material needs; 2) because of the fact that we workers cannot buy all of the commodities that we produce and; 3) because ongoing improvements to the means of production (e.g., computerization and robotization) enable capitalists to increase production and thus profits while employing fewer and fewer workers.
These three main tenets of capitalism result in unemployment – in that, once production quotas are met, once the sales volume of finished commodities drops to a certain point, and once jobs become automated, workers are then laid off, permanently in many cases. (So too are these and other such contradictions of the capitalist system those which constantly tend toward economic recessions and depressions.)

To verify what I have written here thus far, we should only have to perform a cursory examination of the primary industry of which Jeremy Rifkin wrote of; the oil industry.
As of 2010 and according to EconMatters, “US Crude Oil Refining Capacity [was] Near [a] 30-year High.” This despite of the dismal state of the US economy and despite of the fact that America’s newest oil refinery opened during the year 1977.
So if any number of oil refinery workers have been laid off of late, those lay offs would have been due to the ever-dwindling supply of oil as well as to the oil industry’s desire to keep gasoline prices artificially high by way of not constructing additional refineries. These hypothetical layoffs would have had no connection to the oil industry’s physical infrastructure – its means of oil/economic production – which appear to be operating rather well, wouldn’t you say?
Too, does Jeremy Rifkin’s “unemployment is rising to dangerous levels…” suggest that he deems a certain level of unemployment to be acceptable?
Of course he does. After all, he is, in the end, a capitalist economist. As such, he may even be of the belief that an unemployment rate of, say, five-percent is “healthy” for the economy." That is to say – healthy for capitalists because
a reserve pool of labor (Marx) helps to keep wages as low as possible; it assures capitalists with a ready supply of additional workers when needed; it supplies them with replacement workers during strikes; and it keeps them chalk-full of cannon fodder for their – the capitalist class’ – wars.

Nor does peak oil, sunsetting technologies and the like have anything whatsoever to do with the reality that “Governments…and consumers are awash in debt and [that] living standards are plummeting everywhere.”
(I intentionally omitted the word “businesses” from Rifkin’s “Governments, businesses and consumers…” since, save for many small businesses, most businesses are clearly not “awash in debt.” In fact, as Barrack Obama demonstrated earlier this year when he all but literally begged them to begin spending a bit of it, most “Fortune 500” businesses are awash in cash not debt.)
Governments and consumers/[workers] are in fact awash in debt and experiencing plummeting living standards. This, however, has everything to do with the fact that more and more working-class-produced wealth is being funneled into fewer and fewer capitalist coffers while it has nothing to do with Jeremy Rifkin’s aforementioned reasoning.
The average American worker has not enjoyed an increase in real wages (those adjusted for inflation) since 1973 all the while capitalists have become infinitely more wealthy, and governments are faced with tax bases that are declining accordingly as well as with its own ever-increasing plutocratic nature. Simply put, the capitalist class is now buying government influence like never before because, among other reasons, most capitalists now wish to pay less money, or preferably no amount of money, in the form of taxes.

Jeremy Rifkin: “It is becoming increasingly clear that we need a new economic narrative that can take us into a more equitable and sustainable future…In my explorations, I came to realize that the great economic revolutions in history occurred when new communication technologies converge with new energy systems. New energy regimes make possible the creation of more interdependent economic activity and expanded commercial exchange as well as facilitate more dense and inclusive social relationships…
In the coming era, hundreds of millions of people will produce their own green energy in their homes, offices and factories and share it with each other in an ‘energy Internet,’ just like the way we now create and share information online. The democratization of energy will bring with it a fundamental reordering of human relationships, impacting the very way we conduct business, govern society, educate our children and engage in civil life.” [Emphasis not in original.]

Clearly, Jeremy Rifkin and all Marxists can agree that “[i]t is becoming increasingly clear that we need a new economic narrative that can take us into a more equitable and sustainable future.”
But, after reading all of the excerpts posted to the Huffington Report, and while I freely acknowledge that Jeremy Rifkin is of a much deeper intellect than what I am, not to mention a far superior writer, I have been unable to imagine how this “energy Internet” will bring about “a fundamental reordering of relationships.” Rifkin tells us that this fundamental reordering of relationships will stem from the “democratization of energy” without his ever telling us of who would own this futuristic “energy Internet.” Would it be owned and administered collectively by those who would use it and contribute to it, or would it be owned and controlled by energy capitalists? Given his repeated mentioning of the CEOs, business leaders and representatives of various political states he is working with in the “development” of “the energy Internet,” one can only assume that Jeremy Rifkin is pushing his energy Internet with an eye toward its being owned by the same, old, related powers that be – energy capitalists.
Therefore, I am also unable to imagine how in the world this energy Internet could possibly constitute the democratization of energy production or, moreover, how it could usher in a “fundamental reordering of relationships” while wanting of the social ownership and democratic administration of this new Internet – while wanting of a fundamental reordering of relationships.

Jeremy Rifkin speaks of a grid which users/producers could pull from and contribute to. So it would of course be a physical structure similar to if not identical to the current system of electricity distribution. This is a system which is now mainly owned by Southern California Edison, Pacific Gas & Electric, Con Edison and other privately held utility firms. Yet Rifkin makes no mention of the certainty that these utilities would not relinquish ownership, control and thus the profitability of that system of electricity distribution.

The concept of lateral power – of “using Internet technology to transform the power grid of every continent into an energy-sharing intergrid that acts just like the Internet” (Rifkin) is, to me, a sound and viable concept. But I do not see it coming to fruition within the overall framework of the prevailing economic order. I hope to be mistaken, but I do not believe that I am mistaken.
To gain an insight as to who it is that may be mistaken and who it is that may be correct, let us examine a portion of Jeremy Rifkin’s past writings.

Within his The End of Work…, Putman Publishing, 1995, Jeremy Rifkin wrote: “During the 1950s, automation began to take a toll on America’s manufacturing sector…Hardest hit were unskilled jobs in industries where black workers were concerned. Between 1953 and 1962, 1.6 million blue-collor jobs were lost in the manufacturing sector. While the unemployment rate for black Americans had never exceeded 8.5 percent between 1947 and 1953 and the white rate of unemployment was only 5.9 percent.”
Were Jeremy Rifkin a Marxist he may have also stated that capitalism’s cheerleaders of that era asserted that layoffs created by automation and other improvements to the means of production were temporary and that new jobs would be created to reemploy those workers. But, as evidenced by the fact that both “black unemployment rates” and “white unemployment rates” have steadily increased since the 1960s, that never happened.

Rifkin added that “Today 1995, the very same economic and technological factors are starting to affect large numbers of white males with potentially dire consequences for society at large. New jobs will be far too few to absorb the many millions of workers displaced by new technologies.
If the productivity gains of the Information Age are not shared but used mainly to enhance corporate profits, chances are that the growing gap between the haves and the have-nots will eventually cause widespread social disintegration and increased levels of crime and imprisonment on a scale previously unknown in the United States.”

To be sure, all of this has come to pass. But I would ask Jeremy Rifkin what he thought the reason was that capitalists installed and continue to install labor-saving technologies if not to “enhance corporate profits.”
So yes of course “the productivity gains of the Information Age” are not being shared, Mr. Rifkin. After all, a corporation’s one and only responsibility is to create an ever-increasing rate of profit rather than to share productivity gains by, say, paying their workers more while allowing them to work fewer hours.
Too, what does the drastic increase in black unemployment during the 1950s and 1960s show us? What indeed are the “economic factors” that “are starting to affect large numbers of white males” (Rifkin) if not the economic contradictions that govern the capitalist system of production?

So although Jermey Rifkin’s End of Work… is long on accurate descriptions of the symptoms of capitalist rule, it is devoid of a solution which is, I believe, the establishment of the social ownership and democratic administration of the means of production – the establishment of Marxian socialist society.
In turn, I also believe that, while it would be a wonderful technology that would fit quite perfectly within the framework of a futuristic socialist society, the “energy Internet” will never be permitted to come about within capitalist society, at least not within uber-capitalist America.


Yours in revolution..
Guy R. Marsh
Lancaster
93536
Member-at-large (since 1990):
Socialist Labor Party of America (est. 1890)

(Please note that the following type of comment posts directed to this thread will be deleted: those containing childish or otherwise offensive material; those which are off-topic; those which contain cut-and-pasted material that exceed fifty-percent of their total content; and those containing video clips regardless of whether or not they might be accompanied by any amount of original writings [the embedding of URLs or “hotlinks” within comment posts which serve to lead readers to video clips will be accepted as long as all such posts also contain original writings of no fewer than fifty words.]
Thank you.)



09/30/11 - 08:46 PM
Sovereignty Soldier says...
How about if people just work towards self sufficiency? There are ways to live off the grid. We can abondoned a crooked system that does NOT adhere to the Constitution and return to Constitutional laws. Your one step from coming right out and calling for a new economic order just like Kissinger. Scary.
I don’t want to scrap the Constitution or Bill of Rights or even capitalism. I just want the above mentioned documents followed and adhered to. I want them taught to children. I want corporations to NOT be seen as individuals with all the rights of individuals in court. These are wrong and a product of corruption. I want the US back as it once was. Heck I’d take the way it was in the 1970s’ over what it is today. 2/3rds of my countrymen I do not even understand. They are locked in a trance or just ignore corruption and lies.
Your socialism is funded by the same rich bastards that fund the extreme right/fascism. Your really no different than a sheeple on the right still championing Bush, McCain, Perry, Romney etc. Just being used and manipulated.
( send private message )
10/01/11 - 01:09 AM
Cybertariat says...



SS: “Your socialism is funded by the same rich bastards that fund the extreme right/fascism. You’re really no different than a sheeple on the right…”

Is it not odd, SS, that, although I have been unable to locate it because this forum’s search function has been disabled for several months now, I – not all that long ago – composed a rather lengthy post which crushed your idiotic assertion that the Bolshevik revolution had been financed by western banking capitalists – a post that you failed to respond to, yet you continue to assert this Alex-Jones-inspired nonsense?
Look, Mike, as your inability to respond to my writings in any sort of meaningful manner as well as your ghastly writing skills attest to, you’re not very bright. As such, you gravitate toward the likes of Alex Jones, and you cut-and-paste – indeed regurgitate their writings simply because their positions happen to correspond with your preconceived notions of the world around you. You cling to nearly every conspiracy theory under the sun because they make sense of a world that is otherwise confusing to you. You, quite mindlessly, cut-and-paste all of this “special ‘knowledge’” while congratulating yourself for your having penetrated the deceptions of the “ruling elite.” Well, okay, congratulations! You’re the alpha dog! Go right ahead and piss all over a tire or two.

Actually, Mike, it is you who is the ultimate sheeple; one who is in desperate need of enlisting himself into a remedial English class, as per usual.

Good evening..
Persevere..
Guy..





( send private message )
10/01/11 - 01:15 AM
highground says...
It has been only one thing that has advanced humanity. We are suffering now because corrupt administrations since the assignation of JFK, have taken that one quantity away from us and the world. What is it? FREEDOM. It is that simple. It is FREEDOM that gives humanity properity.

Compare the history of man prior to 1787…. Forget the con of terrorism. Take back you freedom and prosperity.
( send private message )

10/01/11 - 02:21 AM
Ray Cunneff says...
Rifkin’s view of the future is generally an optimistic one. The question is, will the deeply-entrenched vested interests allow such a future to happen?
( send private message )
10/01/11 - 03:43 AM
roxi says...
“…Rifkin added that “Today 1995, the very same economic and technological factors are starting to affect large numbers of white males with potentially dire consequences for society at large. New jobs will be far too few to absorb the many millions of workers displaced by new technologies.
If the productivity gains of the Information Age are not shared but used mainly to enhance corporate profits, chances are that the growing gap between the haves and the have-nots will eventually cause widespread social disintegration and increased levels of crime and imprisonment on a scale previously unknown in the United States.”
_______________________
Basically what went down, was THEFT OF INTELLIGENCE. The onset of the computer revolution drained high, and middle-management-paid (white/black/green) workers of their intelligence/their ‘working experience’, put it into a database or software, and replaced the chromosomes for bytes.

The question IS, and what’s going on now, with replaced workers, and those out of work, possibly forever – is IF the Uber International Elite have a plan to extend their “Investments” aka: knowledge thru HUMAN brains, or will they covet their investments in computer knowledge and leave the rest of humanity to die a slow death?

It becomes a moral issue, to which “Corporate Persons” have no relative association. After all, they live forever, no funerals, no mammograms, no Cancer screening and Hospice – forever.

There are very intelligent people begging TO those who’s brains were drained, who provided the technology they so easily click/copy/paste who are of a younger generation - who are begging for the NEXT WAVE of contributions to our society.

If we totally ignore them, and deny them the opportunity to excel – we are not only a failed Nation, we are a failed world, doomed to chaos and anarchy….

Where’s the sanity? Are those who are so wealthy, or so caught up on supporting them blind to the fact that their children, and grandchildren will dissolve in their advocacy of personal wealth?

http://www.rebuildthedream.com/
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10/01/11 - 04:19 AM
Ray Cunneff says...
We must find a sane and coherent path to the future, otherwise Nero fiddles while Rome burns.

Those who despise “globalization” deny the reality that we live in a global economy, that we are increasingly inter-dependent and that we all inhabit the same biosphere. Isolationalism is inevitably stagnation and decline.

We look at Star Trek’s United Federation of Planets as a benign and benevolent vision of humankind’s future. The question is, how do we get there from here?
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10/02/11 - 12:00 AM
Cybertariat says...



Ray Cunneff: “The question is, will the deeply-entrenched, vested interests allow such a future to happen?”

As long as these deeply-entrenched, vested interests – these energy capitalists will still be able to send a bill to you each month just as they do now, of course they’ll allow such a future to happen. Publicly owned utilities, such as the Tennessee Valley Authority, could stand as exceptions to the rule. But all publicly owned utilities will likely have privatized by then because privatization is a good thing, right?

A “fundamental reordering of relationships” all the while leaving capitalism untouched. Really, Jeremy Rifkin?

Good evening.
Persevere.
Guy





( send private message )
10/03/11 - 07:08 PM
Sovereignty Soldier says...
One of the greatest myths of contemporary history is that the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia was a popular uprising of the downtrodden masses against the hated ruling class of the Tsars. As we shall see, however, the planning, the leadership and especially the financing came entirely from outside Russia, mostly from financiers in Germany, Britain and the United States. Furthermore we shall see, that the Rothschild Formula played a major role in shaping these events.

This amazing story begins with the war between Russia and Japan in 1904. Jacob Schiff, who was head of the New York investment firm Kuhn, Loeb and Company, had raised the capital for large war loans to Japan. It was due to this funding that the Japanese were able to launch a stunning attack against the Russians at Port Arthur and the following year to virtually decimate the Russian fleet. In 1905 the Mikado awarded Jacob Schiff a medal, the Second Order of the Treasure of Japan, in recognition of his important role in that campaign.

Jacob Schiff was head of the New York

investment firm Kuhn, Loeb and Co. He
was one of the principal backers of the
Bolshevik revolution and personally
financed Trotsky’s trip from New York
to Russia. He was a major contributor
to Woodrow Wilson’s presidential
campaign and an advocate for passage
of the Federal Reserve Act. (p. 210)

During the two years of hostilities thousands of Russian soldiers and sailors were taken as prisoners. Sources outside of Russia, which were hostile to the Tsarist regime, paid for the printing of Marxist propaganda and had it delivered to the prison camps. Russian-speaking revolutionaries were trained in New York and sent to distribute the pamphlets among the prisoners and to indoctrinate them into rebellion against their own government. When the war was ended, these officers and enlisted men returned home to become virtual seeds of treason against the Tsar. They were to play a major role a few years later in creating mutiny among the military during the Communist takeover of Russia.

TROTSKY WAS A MULTIPLE AGENT
One of the best known Russian revolutionaries at that time was Leon Trotsky. In January of 1916 Trotsky was expelled from France and came to the United States. It has been claimed that his expenses were paid by Jacob Schiff. There is no documentation to substantiate that claim, but the circumstantial evidence does point to a wealthy donor in New York. He remained for several months, while writing for a Russian socialist paper, the Novy Mir (New World) and giving revolutionary speeches at mass meetings in New York City. According to Trotsky himself, on many occasions a chauffeured limousine was placed at his service by a wealthy friend, identified as Dr. M. In his book, My Life, Trotsky wrote:

The doctor’s wife took my wife and the boys out driving and was very kind to them. But she was a mere mortal, whereas the chauffeur was a magician, a titan, a superman! With the wave of his hand he made the machine obey his slightest command. To sit beside him was the supreme delight. When they went into a tea room, the boys would anxiously demand of their mother, “Why doesn’t the chauffeur come in?” (Leon Trotsky: My Life, New York publisher: Scribner’s, 1930, p. 277)

It must have been a curious sight to see the family of the great socialist radical, defender of the working class, enemy of capitalism, enjoying the pleasures of tea rooms and chauffeurs, the very symbols of capitalist luxury.

On March 23, 1917 a mass meeting was held at Carnegie Hall to celebrate the abdication of Nicolas II, which meant the overthrow of Tsarist rule in Russia. Thousands of socialists, Marxists, nihilists nand anarchists attended to cheer the event. The following day there was published on page two of the New York Times a telegram from Jacob Schiff, which had been read to this audience. He expressed regrets, that he could not attend and then described the successful Russian revolution as “…what we had hoped and striven for these long years”. (Mayor Calls Pacifists Traitors, The New York Times, March 24, 1917, p. 2)

Guy don’t be a SAP. Your heros were nothing more than power hungry parasites. They may have started out caring about the little guy, the worker, but to get any support or financing they had to bend to the financiers just like all movements. This is not Alex Jones, this is mainline history that even Wikipedia will turn up.
Your men of the people were nothing more than puppets for the banksters of their day!
( send private message )

10/03/11 - 07:14 PM
Sovereignty Soldier says...
No confusion in the world to me Guy. It is all in the Bible and the only “conspiracies” I “cling” to are ones that history, documents, and self admissions prove correct. When a man admits guilt(i.e. E Howard Hunt) only a fool second guesses and goes with an obviously false official story.
You attempt at every turn to throw me into a class of reptilian believing, shape shifting, kooks who truly do believe everything they read. I am not that one. I have a blueprint that I use. It is prophecy and it has never been wrong yet. So you play the divide and conquer game when we are all in the same boat if you want to. As for me, I demand a return to the constitution and individual liberty.
( send private message )
10/03/11 - 07:15 PM
Sovereignty Soldier says...
In the February 3, 1949 issue of the New York Journal American Schiff’s grandson, John, was quoted by columnist Cholly Knickerbocker as saying that his grandfather had given about $20 million for the triumph of Communism in Russia. (To appraise Schiff’s motives for supporting the Bolsheviks, we must remember, that he was a Jew and that Russian Jews had been persecuted under the Tsarist regime. Consequently the Jewish community in America was inclined to support any movement, which sought to topple the Russian government and the Bolsheviks were excellent candidates for the task. As we shall see further along, however, there were also strong financial incentives for Wall Street firms, such as Kuhn, Loeb and Company, of which Schiff was a senior partner, to see the old regime fall into the hands of revolutionaries, who would agree to grant lucrative business concessions in the future in return for financial support today.)
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10/03/11 - 09:00 PM
Cagy Wolf says...
276 No. 276 of 365
Quote Thomas Sowell::
“Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it.”
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10/04/11 - 03:31 AM
Cybertariat says...



(Please note that, although I will not remove them, this thread holds four comment posts that contain cut-and-pasted material which exceed fifty-percent of their total content, two of which are completely unattributed and thus outright plagiarisms.
Please review the proviso that appears at the bottom of this thread’s parent post.
Thank you.
)

*

Sovereignty Soldier (SS): “This [the assertion that the Bolshevik Revolution had been financed by western banking capitalists] is mainline history that even Wikipedia will turn up.”

While conducting an Internet search employing the following question and subsequent phrases “who financed bolshevik revolution,” “western bankers financed bolshevik revolution” and “jacob schiff financed bolshevik revolution,” I found no evidence that would substantiate the claim that mainline or establishment historians support the notion that western banking capitalists financed the Bolshevik Revolution. This is so simply because the Bolshevik Revolution was not financed by any type of capitalists.
These Internet searches revealed only the likes of Alex Jones and other conspiracy-obsessed individuals as being the “historians” of record.

For its part and to the SS’s credit, Wikipedia does in fact list Jacob Schiff as a having financed a war against Russia’s Tsarist dictatorship, but that war happened to have been the Russo-Japanese War of 1904-1905 rather than the Bolshevik Revolution of 1917. Jacob Schiff, who disliked the the Russian Tsarists for their treatment of Jewish peoples, loaned the Japanese empire $200 million dollars just as he “engineered loans to France, and other nations for humanitarian purposes.”

Wikipedia goes on to say that “Schiff made sure none of the funds from his loans ever went to Russia, which continued [after the Russo-Japanese War] to severely oppress the Jewish people.” By the same token, Wikipedia gives no indication of Jacob Schiff having loaned money to the Bolsheviks who were themselves not predisposed to the equitable treatment of Jewish people. Moreover, upon their taking power, the Bolsheviks cancelled Russia’s debt of more than fifty-five billion Rubles owed to western banking capitalists. And there is no reason to believe that Jacob Schiff would have felt confident in loaning the Bolsheviks any amount of money. For Schiff did indeed lend money to the Empire of Japan for its war against the Tzars, but he quite obviously felt comfortable with its willingness and ability to repay that loan with interest.

Now then, why would any banking capitalist, including Jacob Schiff, have loaned or “given” money to the highly anti-capitalist Bolsheviks who not only canceled fifty-five billion Rubles worth of debt owed to western banking capitalists but who also seized all privately held enterprises?
Alex Jones and others like him maintain that “Historical evidence suggests that both the Bolshevik Revolution and the United States Revolution were Masonic-led and banker-financed plots to consolidate power, planting the seeds for a New World Order in the 20th and 21st Centuries.”
But, aside from the question as to why banking capitalists would have sliced their own throats with respect to the Bolshevik Revolution, such an analysis shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the capitalist system itself. For the capitalist system of production is in way geared toward long range planning of so much as ten years, let alone three-hundred years, and capitalist did not have to “plot” toward the “domination of all global markets” (Alex Jones) because their system of wage and resource exploitation does it for them. It is simply the way in which that system operates; another of its many inherent characteristics.

“Historical evidence” indeed.

Finally. To state, as Alex Jones did, that the Russian Revolution of 1917 was not a homegrown phenomenon – to suggest that the Russian people had to have been told of their horrible plight – is to rely on an incredible level of ignorance amongst one’s audience.

As if the socioeconomic state of the Russian people were not already bad enough, Russia’s industrial output fell by more than fifty-percent between 1916 and the spring of 1917. In early 1917, wages for all Russian workers were slashed in half, and shortages of food, heating oil and other necessities were growing worse by the day.
Given this socioeconomic backdrop, the Bolshevik Revolution which, in truth, involved many factions other than the Bolsheviks, was very brief (approximately six months from start to finish); having quickly benefited from the “standing down” – the defection of large portions of the Tzars’ military. Ergo, what has come to be known as the Bolshevik Revolution (that which was incapable of ushering-in socialism), simply did not require all that much money.
What funds were made available to the Bolsheviks was largely supplied by Alexander Parvus. Parvus was a Russian Marxist who, following the failed Russian revolution of 1905, emigrated to Turkey where he launched a successful armaments firm the proceeds from which he used to finance the efforts of the Bolsheviks.

Good evening.
Persevere.
Guy





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10/04/11 - 03:47 PM
Sovereignty Soldier says...
Moron I do not assume or even attempt to pass other peoples’ writing off as my own. Your mad cause history documents your Bs as just that…BS.
BTW Alex Jones is not 100% truthful with people. He will not touch certain issues or factions. I listen for the info but never follow him.
My info does not come from him. It comes from simple google searches where numerous of the top sites agree on my point. Your “socialist” heros were banker tools. Just like republicans’ neo-con heros are banker tools.
That’s ok though, I understand, every boy has a need for a hero.
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10/04/11 - 03:56 PM
AV Town Crier says...
SS
No question that just about any system we’ve had has been co-opted by the international banking cabal. It’s sort of like what the Catholics did to the pagan’s by co-opting all their holiday’s.

It’s not productive to try and beat people into submission. The power elite are like drug pushers, they get you hooked and you become a willing slave.

In this case money and power are the drugs.
( send private message )

10/06/11 - 03:05 AM
Cybertariat says...



SS: “…I do not…attempt to pass off other people’s writings as my own.”
I see.

To view the source of SS‘s completely unattributed and thus plagiarized post of 10/03/11 – “07:15 PM” (this thread’s ninth comment post) access this link.


SS: “You’re mad because history has documented your BS as being just that, BS.”

Actually and for what could be the one-hundredth time within this forum, history has documented that the bureaucratic state despotism that was the Soviet Union was largely BS. But bureaucratic state despotism has absolutely nothing to do with my “BS” – Marxian social science.

After my having made numerous corrections, as per usual, the remainder of SS’s alleged response to my roughly six-hundred-word post reads as follows:

BTW, Alex Jones is not 100% truthful with people [grin]. He will not touch certain issues or factions. I listen for the info but never follow him.
My info does not come from him [though the SS does “listen for the info.” Hm.] It comes from simple Google searches in which a number of the top sites agreed on my point. Your ‘socialist’ heroes were banker tools just like Republican’s NeoCon heroes are banker tools.
That’s OK, though, I understand that everybody has a need for a hero."
(Really, SS, is that supposed to pass as some sort of legitimate response to my post? Of course it is, huh?)

Notice that, although the English-challenged SS has repeatedly asserted that the Bolshevik Revolution was funded by western banking capitalists, he has yet to offer anything that would serve to substantiate that assertion. He wrote that his “info…comes from simple Google searches in which a number of top sites agree on my point,” but all of these “top sites” were created by those who believe that the United States Federal Reserve banking system is a part of the “‘Luciferian’ New World Order,” that Freemasonry is still another “‘Luciferian’ plot,” and, amongst other such lunacy, that the United Nation’s maintains a fleet of black helicopters which it uses to spy on US citizens.
In addition, none of these “top sites” are those of what could be considered mainline historians with respect to the Bolshevik Revolution and Russia in general, such as Richard Pipes, and Peter Kenez. (SS wrote that “this [the Bolshevik Revolution having been financed by western banking capitalists] is [a part of] mainline history that even Wikipedia will turn up.” As previously mentioned, however, Wikipedia turns up nothing of the kind.
It should also be mentioned that the Internet’s “top sites” are simply those which garner the most “hits” by users within these site’s respective categories. In this case it would be the simpletons-who-believe-the-Bolshevik-Revolution-was-financed-by-western-banking-capitalists category. Yes, right-wing conspiracy sites garner the most hits in that category. Imagine that.

As for the ignorant contention having to do with the likes of Vladamir Lenin, Leon Trotsky, Joseph Stalin, etc., being my “heroes,” not only did these individuals not bring about socialist society, I, once again, have no amount of “heroes,” for I reject the notion of hero worship. Mohammad Ali is my favorite human vis-a-vis the entire history of humankind, but he is not my hero, nor is he a Marxist.

Good evening.
Persevere.
Guy




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