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Tuesday, July 19 2011 - 02:01 PM Persevere..
Homophobia kills (Part II)
Within the seventy-forth (74th) comment post of the New Blog entitled Lancaster wins in court, avbornbred wrote: “I agree with [Cybertariat], you are gay or bi’ by CHOICE.” (I had written, within the seventy-second (72nd) comment post of “Lancaster wins in court,” “Yes, Larry [Hux] did not choose to be heterosexual, yet somehow I ‘did’ choose to be bisexual.” [The meaning of my comment being really quite obvious].)
So, avbornbred, were you attempting to be humorous, or has Christianity now caused you to be so delusional that you actually believe that I meant that homosexuality and bisexuality are matters of choice, or was it because you are even less intelligent than what you appear?
I have on several occasions asked you whether or not you chose to be heterosexual, but you have yet to answer my question because you know perfectly well that I did not choose to be bisexual any more than what you chose to be heterosexual. So too do you know that, were you to answer my question, thereby acknowledging the fact that no one’s sexuality is a matter of choice, you would then have to acknowledge that homosexuality and bisexuality are completely natural conditions. Ergo, as a Christian, you would also have to admit that “God” created lesbians, gays, bisexuals and transgenders. But, short of your shedding that form of insanity known as fundamentalist Christianity, never will you do that. So you continue on with your wholly transparent game.
So go ahead and keep to clinging to the Christianity-induced idiocy which illogically asserts that homosexuality and bisexuality are matters of "choice"’ as you surely will, but it will only continue to demonstrate to we rationalists that you are nothing other than a typically simpleminded bigot.
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To the blogger who sent a personal message to me yesterday which stated that the teaching of “gay history is unnecessary,” I will say that, the belief that the teaching of LGBT history is unnecessary is indistinguishable from when the teaching of black history was widely believed to be unnecessay. To deny the contributions to American society that have been made by various LGBT individuals is to also deny a portion of America’s history as well as its culture.
Moreover, since ignorance begets fear which oftentimes leads to violence towards those who are misunderstood, teaching young children that LGBT peoples are really no different than straight people will serve to greatly lessen the prevalence of such hatred and violence just as the teaching of black history has accomplished with respect to black Americans.
Guy R. Marsh
Lancaster, 93536
Member-at-large (since 1990):
Socialist Labor Party of America (est. 1890)
roxi says...
If anything, the accomplishments of, and eventual murder of Harvey Milk, and the reasons why should never be glossed over in CA history books.
I believe Brown’s goal is to expose children to tolerance, since we now have a trial going on where a 14 yr-old felt it right to shoot a fellow student in the head – twice.
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SaintPrick says...
Firstly, and even though I don’t believe in God, he didn’t create transgender people, they created themselves. They weren’t born that way, they had to take hormones or have body-altering surgery. Duh!
Further more, if someone contributed to history, what difference does their sexual preference make? How specific do we want to get with this liberal horseshit? Did a person who contributed to history smoke cigarettes? well damn it, what about cigarette smoker history? Who that made important contributions to history liked to drink? Alcoholic history anyone? Fact is, that the gay agenda is near and dear to your heart, so therefore you have no problem with it being shoved down the throats of school children. While at the same time, you incessantly whine that christians are shoving their agenda down everyones throat. If you can’t see how hypocritical that is, either you’ve been blinded by your ideology, or you’re a whole lot more like your cousin Randy than you’d like to believe.
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Sovereignty Soldier says...
Hey roxi, when they first reported on the story of the 14 year old, they interviewed his friends who said his best friend was black. I smell a rat in the story. I think the gay boy was teasing the shooter at school. Like winking and showing interest. To a straight boy this could be VERY harmful. So suppose the shooters peers were making fun of him telling him the gay boy is his boyfriend and such. Teasing like that is enough to push someone over the edge. Our media manipulates stories to get you to a desired point of view. Always look at the initial reports as the snakes behind the scenes have not yet had the chance to steer the information. Often you will notice all the initial facts will change in a story after a day or two. Like the Bin Laden, no body/no proof story.
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AV Town Crier says...
Guy
When I was born, I remember getting in the straight line, I also got into the white line. I chose to be a straight white guy.I just forgot to get into the line for big dicks. Damn!
As far as gay teaching in school. I’m not sure that it’s gonna have the affect intended. I’m not sure that a persons individual accomplishments make a difference if straight or gay. However, that’s a minor point. My main concern is how do you know whether a person was gay?
I realize that if it was recent history we’re talking about (last 40 years) then that information might be known. Prior to that, people didn’t announce their sexuality. it wasn’t talked about openly.
There are some exceptions of course, the ancient Greek society during the renaissance period had openly homosexuality. The French (artistic community) was openly gay. Also, Hollywood had openly gay (fey) actors.
My main concern, Guy, is that sometimes they try to label historic figures as being gay when that is not provable. I’ll give one example; Abe Lincoln. I have heard gay pundits claim he may have been gay because he had a male room mate. Hello!In those days, if you shared a room to save expenses, you had to share it with same sex. You would have been run out of town on a rail for sharing with the opposite sex, unless married.
However, I guess if gay history is taught with sensitivity and grade level appropriate it won’t hurt. Clearly something has to be done to stop this anti-gay hatred that is resulting in violence.
Plus, let’s face it; history that is being taught in public schools is a joke. It is so one-sided it is laughable.
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marino says...
There is no more a need for gay history to be taught in schools then there is for bi history, the history of beasteality, the history of virgins, or the history of adult toys.
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roxi says...
07/19/11 – 05:32 PM
Sovereignty Soldier says…
Hey roxi, when they first reported on the story of the 14 year old, they interviewed his friends who said his best friend was black. I smell a rat in the story. I think the gay boy was teasing the shooter at school. Like winking and showing interest. To a straight boy this could be VERY harmful.
________________
So teasing justifies an adolescent to take a gun to school and shoot the ‘teaser’ 2x in the back of the head? You justify this behavior? You’re one sick mo’fo’.
You can’t blame it on the media at all. But you can blame it on his old man for 1. having the gun with easy access, and 2. polluting the child’s mind with prejucice that violence is the only answer.
SS: "…While at the same time, you incessantly whine that christians are shoving their agenda down everyones throat. If you can’t see how hypocritical that is, either you’ve been blinded by your ideology, or you’re a whole lot more like your cousin Randy than you’d like to believe. "
YOU are not a CHRISTIAN. You are a charlatan. If you were a Christian, you would find no need to blindside or attack others WHO ARE.
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SaintPrick says...
Roxi, you’re right, I’m not a Christian. Right in the first sentence of my post I stated that I don’t believe in God. How do you equate that with one being a Christian?
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SaintPrick says...
The kid who shot his classmate killed someone in cold blood. Gay, straight, doesn’t matter, he murdered another human being and deserves what anyone else who has senslessly murdered another human being deserves―to be executed.
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Cybertariat says...
Thus far, three of this forum’s homophobes (those who couldn’t possibly care any less about anti-LGBT violence) have weighed-in as being opposed to the teaching of LGBT history. Imagine that.
You see, Neanderthals, cigarette smoker’s history does not exist because cigarette smokers are not being harassed and murdered for their being cigarette smokers. Alcoholic history does not exist because alcoholics are not being harassed and murdered for their being alcoholics. The history of virgins does not exist because no one is harassing and murdering virgins for their being virgins. Get it, “geniuses”?
SaintPrick: "Firstly, and even though I don’t believe in God [Really?], he didn’t create transgender people, they created themselves…they had to take hormones [and] have body-altering surgery. Duh!"
(How interesting. Our Prick – the author of the Christian-centered New Blog “Marriage” now claims to be an atheist yet he went on to state that “…he [”God"] didn’t create transgender people…" Now that is how to build one’s credibility! )
Now then, with respect to our Prick’s ignorance vis-a-vis transsexualism, the simple fact of the matter is that transexuals are indeed born as transexuals. For although the cause is not yet understood by researchers, it seems as though something occurs in the in-utero development stage of transexual children’s central nervous systems “so that the child is left with innate, strongly perceived cross-gender body feelings and self-perceptions.” —Lynn Conway, What Causes Transsexualism
Duh indeed!
Prick: "…if someone contributed to history, what difference does their sexual ‘preference’ make?
Frankly, their sexualities</> makes no difference with respect to their historical contributions and no linkage to their sexualities should have to be made. But, much like racism makes the linkage to skin color and historical contributions necessary, it is homophobia itself that makes the linkage between sexuality and historical contributions necessary. In other words, were hatred of LGBT peoples not to exist, then the admittedly artificial linkage would not now be the necessity that it has become. To put it still another way, it isn’t as though LGBT peoples walked up to straight people one day and said "Hey, could you guys please begin to hate us or, better yet, pretend not to hate us while claiming to simply disapprove of our “behavior” (as if that will some how be different)?"
Prick: “Fact is, that the ‘gay agenda’ is near and dear your heart [Cybertariat], so therefore you have no problem with it being shoved done the throats of children while at the same time, you incessantly whine that Christians are shoving their agenda down everyone’s throat.” (Emphasis not in original.)
First of all, yes, as everyone knows, I am bisexual. So too does everyone that I am a Marxist-DeLeonist. As such, I would champion the rights and dignity of LGBT peoples were I to be straight just I champion the rights and dignity of all people, most especially those with a history of being persecuted.
Secondly and much unlike the Constitutional prohibition against the melding of governmental and religious influences, there exists no such prohibition regarding the teaching of gay history nor any other type of history within this society’s system of public education. It is curriculum that was lawfully adopted by democratically elected public officials and is therefore not being shoved done anyone’s throat. The fact that you and many other bigots need for people to believe that gay history is somehow being “shoved down children’s throats” is just that, your bigotry-centered “need.”
Sovereignty Soldier: “Why is the label ‘homophobic’ applied to those who do not agree with the behavior?”
As I alluded to above, the old saw “We don’t dislike gay people, we dislike their ‘behavior,’” or (gag!) “We don’t hate the ‘sinner,’ we hate the ‘sin’” are absolutely different than, say, “We hate dick-sucking faggots.” After all, that is what is meant in the first place. Why is there no difference between the two? Because when one attaches negative connotations to a physical act of tenderness and/or love between two or more consenting adults regardless of gender, those negative connotations can be seen as being nothing other than that which degrades the human beings who engage in this allegedly negative behavior. And to degrade other human beings is to also exhibit contempt and thus hatred for them.
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Good evening..
Persevere..
Guy..
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marino says...
A phobia is a fear. Ain’t nobody here afraid of gays or bis or straights that I know of nore have they said one thing that would lead anyone in their right mind to believe they are afraid.
I believe it should be mandatory for all public schools to teach a course in heterosexual history.
Would that be any more idiotic than a course in gay history.
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marino says...
Nore do I believe does anyone on this site hate gays or think they shouldn’t have equal rights.
I just think people get fed up with all the overboard demands, whining, and hypocracy. But moderate gays and bis don’t do that.
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avbornbred says...
Wow, I come home from a hard day at work and find a post aimed at me. I feel so honored. I must of hit the right piss-off button.
In earlier blogs about the gay lifestyle being a CHOICE, I held my ground. I seem to recall Matt, CYBERDUDE, and I were engaged in some major blogging about being gay.
Both CYBERGUY and Matt held fast that their lifestyle CHOICE was normal and in line with nature. I, on the other hand, argued that their lifestyle CHOICE was a CHOICE and not natural. I then told Matt if he truely believed his CHOICE to be gay was normal, he had a biological defect.
Nature is cruel. If 100 gay guys were on a desert island, 100 years later, there would not be any people. The law of nature and people from the same sex cannot reproduce. On the other hand, 50 men and 50 women, could produce offspring, and 100 years later, there would most likely be people on the island. The laws of nature prove that being gay is a CHOICE and not a natural thing.
I would like to think most gay people are intelligent enough and proud enough to stand by their lifestyle CHOICE without hiding behind “it’s normal to be gay” mentality.
CYBERGUYS contant knocks against the Christian community are normal for angry left wing thinkers. Christians are targeted by the gay community ever since the Prop 8 intitiative was voted on last year. The majority of Californians did not accept gay marriage and voted that right down. The majority of Californians, who knows if they were Christians, Muslims, Atheist, or Martian. The people of the state of California came to the polls and defeated the gay marriage initiative. The Gays have since gone to the courts to overturn the election. Typical of liberals.
As mentioned in one of the postings CYBERBIGUY referred to also had comments about how Christians have accepted gays in many denominations and have allowed gay clergy. Again, a sign of CYBERGUYS passion leads to ignorance and hate when he directs his anger at the Christian community as being his enemy. Again, an ignorant point of view by a person who claims to be of a higher intelligence than the average blogger.
As for God creating gays and lesbians. I don’t think so. God created a free thinking mind in people so that people could make CHOICES in their lives, whether good or bad. As a Christian, I believe that gays can be Christians, live productive lives, and be good citizens. There are also gays who are filled with anger and hatred, ala CYBERGUYDUDE and Matt, who vent and spew liberal anger at anyone who views their lifestyle and being an intelligent lifestyle CHOICE rather than accepting the fact that maybe they have a defective gene.
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avbornbred says...
As for Gay history, tell us the great achievements of Gays in our history. I don’t want to here about a the people who were hiding their homosexuality and did great things. I want to hear about gays who stood up for what they beleive and who did great things for this country. Tell me a about the openly gay soldier who jumped on a grenade and save his platoon. How about the lesbian who parachuted into enemy territoy and won WW2.
How about not rewriting history. How about just documenting the growing gay community and the gains they have made leading into the 21st century. How about looking at the gay community getting the same sex marriage thing on the ballot. That in itself is a great story even though it was defeated. Instead, angry libs target anyone who they think is against there CHOICE to touch peepees and call it normal.
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avbornbred says...
One last post about the Gay History Movement. All it is about is to draw attention and to justify and legitimize their existance. If a book say a Gay did something great, it makes gays feel important and legit.
I once heard an over exageration of the Tuskegee Airman from WW2, an all black squadron for fighter pilots who had an amazing victory total and were PART of the many of thousands of units who defeated Nazi Germany.
The exageration was made by a black woman giving a speach during Black History month. When making reference to the Tuskegee Airmen, she said the US would not have won WW2 without them. That is a far misleading brainwashing distortion of the truth. That comment was made here in the AV at one of our elementary schools several years ago.
I can’t wait until we here the distortions of how Lewis and Clark were gay and that is why they discovered so much of Western North America and how they formed alliances with indians through gay sex.
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Cybertariat says...
Gentlemen, are you of the mind that thIs forum’s readership does not notice the fact that I reproduce many and often all of your comments and then set out to address them in a to the point, erudite and relatively lengthy fashion while your “responses” make it appear as though you did even read that which you “responded” to?
As I have stated on several occasions over the past five years, were this a formal debate, you harlequins would already been laughed from the venue.
In short, you are religion-based dummies who lack so much as a working knowledge of the English language and who would be much better served were you to ignore my writings.
Persevere..
Guy..
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Cybertariat says...
Or "…did not even read that which you “responded” to?
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Sovereignty Soldier says...
No roxi, murder is never justified. I only made the point that the story is being manipulated for a desired result in the peoples’ minds. I don’t buy the racist claims. As I said before, first reports had student peers claiming his best friend was black. Haven’t heard anymore of that since. Only the opposite.
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marino says...
When Cybertariat talks about gays and bis and you don’t agree with him, you are attacked, your religion is attacked, you are put down for your writing skills, you are refered to as all sorts of names that coincide with being nowhere near as smart as Cybertariat.
Freedom of speach is great. But if I were a moderate gay or bi, I’d be telling myself, “I wish that dude with STFU.”
You can’t teach common sense and logic.
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SaintPrick says...
Cybertariat says: “those negative connotations can be seen as being nothing other than that which degrades the human beings who engage in this allegedly negative behavior (bad spelling and grammar, a comparison that can be made if I think like a hard left liberal). And to degrade other human beings is to also exhibit contempt and thus hatred for them.”
Marino says: "When Cybertariat talks about gays and bis and you don’t agree with him, you are attacked, your religion is attacked, you are put down for your writing skills, you are referred to as all sorts of names that coincide with being nowhere near as smart as Cybertariat.
But it’s not hate or contempt coming from Cyber, Marino. Cyber’s enlightened, he’s above all that kind of stuff. When he calls into question your intelligence, he does it because he loves you. He’s trying to show you how much he values you as a person. You need to return the respect and value him as a person, or you’re a bigot.
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Cybertariat says...
You’re stuffed full of more shit than a goddamned Christmas turkey, marino. Anyone who actually reads my offerings to this forum knows that, when I do engage in name-calling, they are measured responses to my detractor’s name-calling, lack of basic knowledge and debating skills and, yes, their atrocious writing “skills.” For example, in my post of “02:29 PM,” I referred to Mike, John and yourself as “harlequins” – indeed buffoons in view of the stark reality that seldom if ever do any of you address the specifics of my point by point, erudite and relatively lengthy responses to your “writings.” So yes of course I am going to draw attention to my opponent’s intellectual shortcomings in this battle for hearts and minds which is a blood sport in order to demonstrate to readers that, although my opponents are entitled to their opinions, they are, largely speaking, they are know-nothings and thus wrong.
Also, marino, if you are so concerned with name-calling, why is it that never once have you rebuked Randy Hall, Larry Hobson, Billy Bernier, Larry Hux, and still others for the horrible names that they have attached to me over the years, especially during the first few years during which I never attacked anyone?
Therefore, marino, your post of “03:49 PM” was nothing short of a desperate attempt to cover up for the fact that you really are a highly unsophisticated individual who couldn’t possibly debate your way out of a proverbial wet paper bag were your very existence dependent upon your doing so. Worse yet, you are towing an utterly bankrupt sociopolitical ideology which is indefensible in the first place and which is the very embodiment of homophobia, not to mention racism, sexism, xenophobia, militarism and all other such social pathologies which cannot be defended even by the brightest of reactionaries. But not to worry, marino, for you are off the hook.
back to it…
Persevere..
Guy..
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Ray Cunneff says...
In reading this and other threads on the subject, I feel the need, if not responsibility, to weigh in. The debate seems to center on two basic questions:
1. Should “gay history” (for want of a better term) be taught in schools?
2. Is homosexuality, or bisexuality, a matter of choice?
I’ll start with the first. I remember that, as an English major in college, I was surprised to learn for the first time that American poet and journalist Walt Whitman was homosexual (or at the very least bisexual). I had read “Leaves of Grass” in high school but, in spite of its overt sexuality, the subject of Whitman’s sexual orientation was never discussed.
With that in mind, yesterday I did a series of searches for “famous gays”, hoping to post a list on this website. But the first “in history” list was literally thousands of names long. So I narrowed the search to “famous American gays” but still the list was several hundred names long.
What struck me going through these lists was that self-avowed gays and bisexuals had made so many significant achievments in virtually every field of human endeavor one could imagine. It was not limited to artists, writers and other creative types, but scientists, mathematicians, architects, inventors and countless other pursuits. By rough count, at least six Nobel Prize winners in various fields were gay or bi.
In most cases, their sexuality didn’t define them but it does serve to illuminate not only who they were as people but their contributions to society.
As to the question of choice, there is no doubt in my mind or experience about this – a person’s sexuality is NOT a matter of choice. If there is any choice at all (and it’s a poor one), it’s whether to express it or to try to suppress it.
Growing up in a Broadway theatrical family and spending most of my career in the entertainment industry, I’ve known GLBT people my entire life. Contrary to stereotypes, while some wear their sexuality like a badge of honor, others you would never guess were gay or bi. But in virtually all cases, they knew from early childhood that they were somehow “different”. And for many of them, it was a struggle to come to terms with it.
A personal anecdote: Bruce Gilray was my best friend for something like 25 years. He and his lover Michael were witnesses at Jeanne’s and my wedding. We called them our “maids of honor”.
(They cried.) We were invited to their many parties (the “Christmas in July” was a special favorite), got to know all their friends (we were known as the “breeders”) and we always felt welcome and blessed to be a part of their lives. We’ve never known such loyal, generous and just plain fun friends.
When Bruce died of AIDS (he had it before it even had a name) in 1997, after fighting the good fight for many years, we planted a little oak tree sprig in our backyard in his name. It’s about twelve feet tall now and not a day goes by that we don’t think about him and miss him terribly.
We’re all just people, straight, gay, bi, trannies. And more to the point, American citizens with equal right to “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness” whatever our sexual identity.
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avbornbred says...
CYBERGUY: Dude, you are one interesting guy. you attack the Christian community, the one group who actually will protect you and those like you. Christians love the sinner, that would be you, and hate the sin. As a Christian, not the Bible thumping type, I would rather live next to a same sex law abiding couple than next to a group of Section 8 Prawns from South Central LA. Does that make me a homophobe or a racist? answer is neither. It is the truth. what CYBERGUY does in his own home is his business. You are the type who would lose your mind if I had church groups at my house.
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marino says...
Even though I have no authority or right to control insults towards one another on this site, I have in the past asked for it to stop, at least on my blogs. I’ve brought up that there is no moderator and that this site is out of control.
I’ve suggested to 138 years ago in private that I agree with most of his political views but that if he refrained from the insults and namecalling he’d be of more value here. He declined to accept my suggestion as that is his right. Larry Hobson has been gone. I now try to stay out of other’s battles. You and Hux want a bitchfest, go for it. I stay out unless it’s directed towards me or my lifestyle.
You may be unable to improve on your level of common sense, Cybertariat, but I’m confidant you can work on your tolerance and patience. You do at times seem in control. The amount of insults and namecalling reminds me of my junior high school days.
(BTW, Your posts would be an easier read if you were to space your paragraphs. Perhaps it has to do with the device you’re using on your most recent posts.)
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Sovereignty Soldier says...
In the days of Jesus people would have “a bad/unclean spirit”. Today it is called mental health issues and drugs(pharmakeia) are pushed to mask the symptoms. But those unclean spirits are still there. The unclean spirits work to bring in Lucifers kingdom here on earth. When people have sin in their lives and they consciously continue in their sin, they open doorways within themselves. This allows a legal right for Satan/Lucifer to work in your life. The agenda of the Luciferic kingdom is destruction of all governments, of all religions, and complete control of all humans. What a coincidence, same as the stated illuminati goals.
I believe we all have tests and some give in and some do not. I believe once you open the doorway to homosexuality, you allow unclean spirits in. Also there are generational curses. Sometimes the unclean spirit can be passed on through the bloodline. This is why God says he will visit the sins of the parents upon the children, even to the 3rd and 4th generation. Deliverance is the only way out of these situations. For all spirits are subject to one name… Jesus Christ!
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Cybertariat says...
An excellent post, Ray; scholarly and well-written as per usual, moving and, to anyone in possession of a trifle amount of common sense and intelligence, convincing.
Thank you, Ray
Famous gay and bisexual people
But it doesn’t include Lyle Alzado. ;-(
Persevere..
Guy..
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sikntired says...
My dear SS,were you spanked a lot as a child? Deviance exists in all forms of sexuality and much of it begins as abuse or repression ,just a thought. As for sins being visited on children,I believe that is known as genetics.
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sikntired says...
Oh yeah,another question-Why would anyone CHOOSE to be a pariah in this society ? Would be easier to pretend ,thus not be authentic,wouldn’t it ?
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Cybertariat says...
I wasn’t spanked a lot as a child, but I sure as hell have made up for that deficiency as an adult! Yeah, baby!
As for the SS, well he’s just one big, superstitious, repressed mess.
The SS: This allows a legal right for Satan/Lucifer to work in your life." (RFLMMfAO)
Yes, I once read that this uh, legal right is officially known as "US Code 666; Subsection 666.
You’re a fucking nutjob, SS.
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“If you want to get together in any exclusive situation and have people love you, fine – but to hang all this desperate sociology on the idea of the Cloud-Guy who has the Big Book, who knows if you’ve been bad or good – and cares about any of it – to hang it all on that, folks, is the chimpanzee part of the brain working.” —Frank Zappa
Too true, sikntired, why would I or any other LGBT person have chosen to be subjected to the anguish that this homophobic society places upon us through our respective sexualities?
Answer: We wouldn’t make such a choice and we didn’t make such a choice. Speaking for myself, I knew myself to be sexually attracted to certain members of both genders by the time I was seven years old; long before I first heard the
words “heterosexual,” “homosexual” and “bisexual,” let alone my having understood the meaning of those words. Indeed, my sexuality is no less organic than that of any and all straight people. To state otherwise is to reveal a very high degree of ignorance. So too is it insulting in the extreme.
Oh and, notice that avbornbred has still not answered the question as to whether or not he chose to be straight. It is all so fucking obvious!
Persevere..
Guy..
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mattkeltner says...
When I look at the beautiful and simplistic way the First Nations people (American Indians) related to the earth on a spiritual level, I find respite.
Gay/Lesbian/Transgender people in that society were never mocked or punished for their sexual orientation, but were often believed to be shamans who held great insight into the material and spiritual world. It was believed so because of their dual sexual nature. “Two Spirits” they were called, and they were thought to be good healers and teachers and a blessing from the Great Mystery.
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Cybertariat says...
[A]bornbred has also failed to answer or, more to the point, has refused to answer Matt’s question regarding same-sex temptation. Matt asked:
“Avbornbred, if it [same-sex attraction] is truly a ‘choice’ as you insist, then I have to ask the inevitable…
“Have you ever thought about, or, been tempted to have sex with another man but CHOSE not to do so?”
(Cue Jeopardy theme music…for the second time.)
Persevere..
Guy..
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ocn8tv says...
I was beaten by my faithful church going parents with a belt every week-end, sometimes along with my brother, 2 for 1. I also was bitch-slapped by my father when I refused to go to church one tme, and he gave me a bloody nose.
Children who are abused don’t come out as sexual deviants unless they are sexually abused. It’s more like they grow up and come out of their coma and either get back at the abusers, or they never go home again.
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sikntired says...
“This is why God says he will visit the sins of the parents upon the children, even to the 3rd and 4th generation”-did God say that or some old men with an agenda who wrote the Bible say that? Big difference.
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mattkeltner says...
Ocn8tv,
Your post reminds me of a girl I knew who would cry until she threw up when her dad would drop her off at a so-called Christian baby sitters house. The babysitter would make her eat her own vomit as punishment. She thoroughly hates organized religion and I can’t say as though I blame her…it’s really sad! Religion – especially Christianity – needs to change or it will die! It needs to go back to the core message of Christ (Love) and forget everything else!
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Cybertariat says...
I am so very sorry to learn of your childhood abuse, ocn8tv.
In light of that form of child abuse, is it any wonder that such creeps find it so easy to shove that garbage down the throat of society at-large?
To me, forcing children to attend church is yet another indication of religion’s illegitimacy. Once a child has seen through that gibberish, they need be left alone and allowed to think for themselves. But, no, many of our “good” Christians have to physically abuse their children in response to their children’s wish to reject that nonsense, thereby revealing the very violent and controlling nature of Christianity.
Oh and, may Christianity never change. May it simply die.
Persevere..
Guy..
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Cagy Wolf says...
To me, forcing children to learn homosexual history is the same as forcing children to practice christianity.Is it any wonder that such creeps find it so easy to shove that garbage down the throat of society at-large?
To me, forcing children to attend and learn marxism in a communist country is yet another indication of communism illegitimacy. Once a child has seen through that gibberish, they need be left alone and allowed to think for themselves. But, no, many of our “good” Marxist have to physically abuse their children in response to their children’s wish to reject that nonsense, thereby revealing the very violent and controlling nature of Communism.
Oh and, may Communism never change. May it simply die.
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ocn8tv says...
Thank you for your comments Matt and Guy. I don’t think I understand sikntired, except maybe they mean that my parents learned the abuse from their parents.
This was very hard for me to write, but after reading some of the comments on this blogsite I thought someone needed to let others know just how harmful hate can be. What happened to me and my brother is still happening to others.
I hope the hate can stop, someday.
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sikntired says...
Ocn8tv,I was commenting On Ss’s statement that the sins of the parents will be visited on the children,the “unclean spirit” will cause all sorts of horrible afflictions, instead of attributing those to genetics where they rightly belong. Most assuredly you can break the abuse cycle,you have already begun.
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Cybertariat says...
You are of course quite welcome, ocn8tv. I only wish I were able to do something to help you to overcome the effects of your abuse.
I too – as a young child – rebelled against not only being taken to church but also against my being enrolled in a Christian elementary school. Fortunately, not only did my parents not abuse me in any way for my dislike of all things religious, they simply allowed me to stop attending church and Sunday “school,” and they soon enrolled me into the public school system. Most importantly, my parents allowed me to begin thinking for myself early on and I thank them for that to this very day.
Again, ocn8tv, I am so very sorry. Be strong.
Persevere..
Guy..
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avbornbred says...
Matt & CYBERDUDE: In answering Matt’s question from his earlier thread asking if I have ever had a “same sex attraction.” No, I have never had a same sex attraction! CYBERGUY has also asked if being heterosexual was a CHOICE. No, I don’t think being heterosexual is a CHOICE for me and for millions of other normal people in this country. My attraction towards my wife and appreciation of women has always been.
As for Ocn8tv’s abuse, if true, the parents need to be jailed or punished. Child abuse happens in all religions, non religions, and cultures. It is a crime.
In reference to my earlier thread about God wanting man to have a free will and the ability to make CHOICES, CYBERGUYS own comments about leaving the church to attend public schools, great, that was a decision that was a better fit for CYBERGUY.
As for the raising of my kids, one went all the way through public school. Not being happy with the fact he graduated without learning, we sent the younger two children to private schools, Desert Christian and Paraclete. Not for religious teachings, but for education. The private schools were more strict and willing to teach while the public school was more willing to give everyone a passing grade, you know, the 2 + 2 = 5 mentality as being the right answer, “good boy Johnny!”
Having compared the quality of education at both private and public, the private schools provided the better product, and they did not force religion down my kids throats. Yes, I paid 1000’s of dollars for the private schools, and I feel it was worth it. Both the younger ones are in colleges and the older public school graduate had one choice, the USMC. The USMC is where he received his education and will be his career.
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Cybertariat says...
avbornbred: “No, I don’t think being heterosexual is a choice for me and for millions of other normal people in this country. My attraction…to women has always been there.”
Yes of course your sexual attraction to women has always been with you, avbornbred, just as my sexual attraction to women has always been with me and just as that sexual attraction has always been coupled with my sexual attraction to men. To assert or to suggest otherwise is silly at best and arrogant at worst.
Your “…I don’t think being heterosexual is a choice for…normal people” is, of course, your backup; your way of saying “Well, okay, gay and bisexual people may not have chosen not to be heterosexual, but their homsexuality and bisexuality are abnormalities – genetic ‘defects.’” But there exists no amount of evidence which would tend to support the theory that homosexuality and bisexuality result from genetic defects. Are they “abnormalities” in that they are not the norm with respect to human sexulity? Yes, but so too is red hair not the norm with respect to hair color in that only two to four percent of all human beings are estimated to have red hair, but you wouldn’t be likely to conclude that “redheads” are abnormal for their having red hair, now would you, avbornbred?
It is also true that, with an estimated ten-percent of the world’s human population being left-handed, neither is left-handedness “the norm,” but neither would you be likely to conclude that left-handed people are “abnormal” – “genetic defects,” no, avbornbred? No you would not. But why? Because you are not endeavoring to deny left-handed people and “redheads” their dignity and their humanity! And, regardless of whether or not you understand it as such, denying the dignity and humanity of other human beings is exactly what you do when you suggest that gay and bisexual people are abnormal – that we are “genetic defects”!
Now then, at 31 and 53, respectively, neither Matt nor myself will committing suicide due to homophobia. But with suicide rates being some eight times higher for young LGBTs than for young heterosexuals, why would anyone wish to refer to LGBT peoples as being “abnormal” (“strange, unnatural, deviant, freakish, monstrous, morbid…” —Webster’s New World Dictionary).
Won’t you please think about it, avbornbred? Words mean a lot more than what might believe.
Persevere..
Guy..
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Ray Cunneff says...
BREAKING:
The Pentagon is set to certify that the U.S. military is prepared to accept openly gay and lesbian service members, and that doing so will not harm military readiness, a U.S. official says.
According to the official, who spoke on condition of not being identified, an announcement of that certification – which is required to repeal the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy – is likely to come Friday.
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marino says...
If it isn’t a choice, then it has to be genetic makeup, Cybertariat.
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avbornbred says...
CYBERGUYDUDE: My opinion about “genetic defects” came to mind after Matt and you were debating me some time ago about this same issue. I had made a point that nature does not work with homosexuality. A species can’t reproduce if members of the same sex try to propagate. There for homosexuality is for emotion and pleasure. If a member of one sex has no attraction towards the opposite sex, that could be from a defect, a genetic defect. A species would not be able to continue to exist if all the men were banging other men and women were rolling around with other women. Propogation would not work.
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avbornbred says...
Ray: Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell, was introduced during the Clinton Administration. It allowed gays to serve in the military. As long as gays did not publically make an issue of their sexuality, they could serve their country.
By changing the policy, it creates an atmosphere where gays can not create discrimination whenever passed over for a promotion or if someone says something insulting.
The Clinton DADT policy was the correct and fair.
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mattkeltner says...
“Avbornbred” sounds an awful lot like Sherry Marquez!
Still carrying residual bigotry from your LBC days, are you avbb?
Here is Sherry’s post on twitter post, re-posted to facebook:
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Sherry Marquez
15 July at 06:47 via Twitter
Proud 2 b HETEROSEXUAL/MONOGOMOUS-Celebrat’g 40 yrs of marriage 2 Eddie Marquez 9/3/71-2 children, 4 grandchildren! Praise the Lord!
- and -
Sherry Marquez
All the NORM’s need to come out of the closet and proclaim their pride in being “NORM”!! It’s time!! OK what set me off? this – “Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Intersex and Questioning” (LGBTIQ) I’m not questioning – I know! I was born a girl, so I will practice being a girl, a heterosexual, monogomous and practicing Christianity!!
15 July at 08:15 · Like Unlike · 2 people
-—-
This woman is really a Public Relations disaster for the City of Lancaster!
She goes off about the weirdest, most random things. The word “questioning” sent her into a tailspin, apparently!
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Cybertariat says...
avbornbred: “A species can’t reproduce if members of the same sex try to propagate.” That, however, ignores the fact that only about five-percent of all human beings are gay; that there are more than enough straight people to carry on the human species (as if this planet’s nearly seven-billion human inhabitants were somehow representative of a shortage of human beings),
avbornbred: Therefore, homosexuality is for emotion and pleasure."
Yes, just like heterosexuality, the pleasure known as sexual pleasure, and the emotion known as love. The bigotry-induced notion that homosexuals have sex while heterosexuals fall in love is really quite ridiculous because all human beings want to be loved.
avbornbred: “if a member of one sex has no attraction towards the opposite sex, then that could be from a defect – a genetic defect.”
No it is not the result of a genetic defect, and this is precisely the reason why our Christianiy/ignornance-based avbornbred has ignored my points having to do with “redheaded” people and left-handed people (avbornbred is a master at ignoring specifics). So I will take a more direct route:
Are you, avbornbred, of the mind that “redheaded” people and left-handed people are the results of genetic defects; that they are not normal? (avornbred is also a master with respect to ignoring direct questions. But we shall see.)
avbornbred: “A species would not be able to continue to exist if all the men were banging other men [to the complete exclusion of women] and [all of the] women were rolling around with other women [to the complete exclusion of men].”
Brilliant! Simply brilliant
But the baseless and thus idiotic saying that “Gay people cannot reproduce” is just that, baseless and idiotic (oh and, all so Christian-based). For fertile gay people have been having babies since time immemorial. (Need I explain that one to our ever-so sheltered superstitionists? Probably.
Too, avbornbred, if a gay person’s "lack"’ of sexual attraction for members of their opposite sex is the result of a genetic “defect,” then is my bisexuality the result of, what, a “half of a genetic ‘defect’”? Go ahead and make something up again, avbornbred. Short of that, call your Pastor Severia and let him "think"’ for you as per usual.
Persevere..
Guy..
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marino says...
You don’t have to be a licensed journeyman plumber to understand a male/female anatomy blueprint. Made to fit.
People have same sex sex or opposite sex sex because of genetics or choice. Those are the only feasable options.
The same goes for pedophiles or someone into beasteality. Funny that pedophiles are sent to rehab as if that’ll change them.
So most humans (98%?) fit the bill they were designed for. There’s always an exception.
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Cybertariat says...
A “male/female anatomy” is descriptive of a (yum!) transexual, marino. And, yes, it is all made to fit." :-)
back to it..
Persevere..
Guy..
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marino says...
Yes, Cybertariat, there are also a small % of mutations. Whatever rocks you.
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Cybertariat says...
Actually, marino, transsexualism is in no way the result of any sort of mutation. You really should get out more often, marino.
Too, attractive/very feminine transexuals excite virtually all men. It is just that I am one of the very few who will acknowledge such an attraction…and then some. :-)-
*
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Cybertariat says...
Re: The US military’s recent, more accepting attitude with respect to gay military personnel: Damn! I was hoping, in the event of my ever being drafted, to just offer the recruiter a blow job and that that would be the end of my uh, military service. :-)
Persevere..
Guy..
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AV Town Crier says...
I am a Vietnam Vet; we had gays in the military back then. Everybody new who they were. I don’t remember any serious issues happening over it. For the most part—people minded their own business and it never became an issue.
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Ray Cunneff says...
AVTC,
I had a simliar experience in the Army, at about the same time, but it’s worth mentioning that not all gays were known. I had a Master Sergeant, a “lifer”, who did not reveal that he was gay until he was about to retire. He seemed as “butch” as anyone you’d ever meet.
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AV Town Crier says...
Ray
I agree. A lot (most) stayed in the closet. Like you said, some were the most macho guys around. You can’t always tell.
But, like I said, for the most part, there wasn’t any trouble.
I don’t think that the new policy will change anything. I think, when you’re in the military and you have a war to deal with—you just want to make sure that someone has your back (no pun intended).
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Cybertariat says...
To me, knowing that there are gay and bisexual people in the US military is no different than my knowing that there are women in the US military because never have I understood why women and “queer” people would want to reinforce a homophobic and sexist organization the likes of the US military.
Persevere..
Guy..
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AV Town Crier says...
Guy
Good point. But, it’s all a matter of choice. I doubt that there aren’t really too many issues with women in the military any more than women cops. A gun in a women’s hand kills just as if it were in a man’s. Israel has always had women in the military and there are no real issues..
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Cybertariat says...
All right, AVTC, but my point concerning female military personnel is that they are helping to reinforce and to justify the sexist institution known as the US military. To me, it is akin to a black person becoming a member of the KKK.
The fact that women now want the “right” to kill other women – poor women, not to mention children, is even more upsetting. Hell, James, you were in Vietnam. So you know.
Persevere..
Guy..
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AV Town Crier says...
Guy
In the larger picture, there’s no question about it. We all know 99.999999999999999% of war is strictly business. It’s always the innocent who die as a result of war.
You would think after being civilized as long as we have that the need of war and armies would be a thing of the past. Sadly, that is not the case. Sadly, we are NOT really civilized.
I don’t see any chance of that changing anytime soon. There’s is no question in my mind that we are being governed by a criminal government. Again, short of an out and out overthrow of the criminals and a return of the US Constitution, I don’t see any changes on that front either.
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Cybertariat says...
Well, although my point, AVTC, was the US military’s long history of cowardly massacres of women and children and that women should not wish to participate in these ongoing atrocities, yes, for as long as we allow ourselves to be brainwashed into believing that “capitalism is the best of all possible socioeconomic systems,” we will have to endure war born of capitalism until it consumes us. *
* Vietnam, as but a single example, was one gigantic Mai Lai massacre.
*
“…I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.” —the late General Smedley Darlington Butler, former commandant of the United States Marine Corp and America’s only two-time recipient of the Congressional Medal of Honor for heroism.
Good evening..
Persevere..
Guy..
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Cybertariat says...
Also, intheav’s banner ads. have disappeared. How refreshing! :-)
Out!
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AV Town Crier says...
Guy
As sad as it is, right or wrong, when your country goes to war—soldiers need to step up. It’s not them who decides the right or wrong of it. It will be judged by history.
Perhaps the idea of woman and gays (and other minorities) in joining the military has a positive affect.At least you can make the organization more humanistic (if such is possible. Though, war is in effect, legalized murder and mayhem done in the name of god and country—when in fact, it’s done in neither—but in the name of greedy capitalists.
I agree with you, Guy in your view of capitalism. I don’t disagree with some of your views on socialism (Marxism, etc). Sadly, neither system will work. Not in this world. It may take an Armageddon and a new civilization emerging to change how we as humankind operate.
Right now, we need to balance (as best as we can) the best of capitalism with social responsibility (which is actually what America was founded upon—after all, we started out as a republic. We didn’t stay that way as our founding fathers had hopped for.)
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AV Town Crier says...
Guy
What ad banner disappeared? I still see Schooners splashed across the top. At least it’s not for ambulance chaser R. Rex Protecting you.
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marino says...
I live near folks with horses. Some of Cybertariat’s comments remind me of the horse manure left on streets in an equestrian community. At times it’s just not worth picking up. In time it will turn to dust.
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Cybertariat says...
AVTC: “…when your country goes to war soldiers need to step in. It’s not them who decides the right and wrong of it. It will be judged by history.”
Nonsense! In antiquity that may well have been the case. But in this information era in which we now live, there exists more than a sufficient amount of information that informs the constantly vigil citizen that, for example, US military involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan has to do with the control of oil and natural gas as well as US hegemony in general; information that can prevent a citizen from becoming a soldier in the first place.
Persevere..
Guy..
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Cybertariat says...
Also, marino, do you view Smedley Butler’s comments as being “horse manure”?
Persevere..
Guy..
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Cybertariat says...
Oh and, yes, this forum’s “front page” and “top page” banner ads. are, unfortunately, still with us. However, for one wonderful reason or another, the advertisements which once formulated themselves to coincide with a particular thread’s general theme have been removed. It likely has to do with declining readership and advertiser’s corresponding unwillingness to pay for what isn’t there. :-)
Good day..
Persevere..
Guy..
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AV Town Crier says...
Guy
To a degree I will agree in that we don’t have a draft and those individuals who join the military do so voluntarily.
They still do it out of patriotism (even if it’s misguided). Just because you understand what you read in the newspapers, doesn’t mean that others do.
I still talk to people who believe that Oswald was the loan gunman.
The reason our country is in the mess we’re in is because ‘we-da people’ allowed it to happen over time. Why? because we just went along blindly and took what our leaders told us. We didn’t question it. People to this day still believe that because we elect our leaders that they are representing us.
The fact that they give you a choice of democrap or republicrap, they think this is really choice. When in fact, the same puppet master controls both sides. It’s a scam.
But back to the military—when you’re 18 or so, you really don’t fully understand. i went to Vietnam because that’s what you do to support your country. Did I believe the war was right? No. I gave my leaders grief. I did the same all through school. I’ve always been a non-conformist.
But be that as it may, I still went, because I felt an obligation to serve. I also respected those who chose not to. I believe that all sides should be heard and publicly debated.
At the end of the day, I still chose to join the military. While I disagree with a lot of what this country and our leaders do, If there was a better place, I’d go in a New York Minute. But alas, there isn’t. So I’ll stay here, and speak up against what I feel is wrong with the idealistic (perhaps sucker)view that it can change and that we can return to the country our founding fathers fought for and gave us. That republic that Ben Franklin said he gave us if we could hold on too it. We didn’t hold on to it—but I idealistically, feel we can get it back.
At the end of the day, Guy, if I was 18 and my country asked me to go to war, I’d still go. But I would still shoot my mouth off, if I felt it was wrong. I’m proud I served and went to Vietnam—it will be up to history to determine if I was right or wrong.I can live with that. I can also live with Jane Fonda doing what she did. It was wrong. I’ll never forgive her—but she also inspired me to stand up and fight for what is right—that being her right to freedom of speech. even if I disagreed with that speech—it still is her right. That’s the America I believe in. And that too, Guy, is the America that allows you to speak your mind, and live your life style.While others on this blog seem to hate you for your views—I respect them, even when I disagree. I would Also stand up and take a bullet in the heart to protect your right to speak out. That’s how I roll.
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Cybertariat says...
“The Heterosexual Privilege Checklist:
“On a daily basis as a straight person…
“I can be pretty sure that my roomate, hallmates and classmates will be comfortable with my sexual orientation.
“If I pick up a magazine, watch TV, or play music, I can be certain my sexual orientation will be represented.
“When I talk about my heterosexuality (such as in a joke or talking about my relationships), I will not be accused of pushing my sexual orientation onto others.
“I do not have to fear that if my family and friends find out about my sexual orientation there will be economic, emotional, physical or psychological consequences.
“I did not grow up with games that attack my sexual orientation (i.e., “fag tag” or “smear the queer”)."
Persevere..
Guy..
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AV Town Crier says...
Guy
No question about that. it is/was an injustice. No question better education has to take place. Better understanding and a true compassion for our fellow man is in short supply.
I do wish things were different. I wish there was less (zero) hatred in this world. If I could change it, I would.
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Cybertariat says...
“The Heterosexual Privilege Checklist” continued…
“I am not accused of being abused, warped or psychologically confused because of my sexual orientation.
“I can go home from most meetings, classes and conversations without feeling excluded, fearful, attacked, isolated, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance, stereotyped or feared because or my sexual orientation.
“I am never asked to speak for everyone who is heterosexual.
“I can be sure that my classes will require curricular materials that testify to the existence of people with my sexual orientation.
“People don’t ask why I made my ‘choice’ of sexual orientation.”
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AV Town Crier says...
No question that there is a general prejudice in the type situation you mention. Woman, too have the same problem. It will take time to get over it.
In a lot of cases, it’s not intentional. It’s just not paying attention. In other cases, it’s hold-over prejudice from their upbringing. Hopefully, time and education and awareness will change that for future generations growing up.
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Cybertariat says...
“…education and awareness will change that for future generations.”
Precisely, AVTC. Hence, the need for the teaching of what is being referred to as “gay
history” within this society’s system of public education. And that is one of the many reasons that neocons are endeavoring to destroy this society’s system of public education. They know that a privatized system of “education” would not and could not be compelled to teach such history, and that is exactly what they wish for because the vast majority of neocons are at best indifferent to anti-LGBT hatred, harassment, violence and murder.
Persevere..
Guy..
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Cybertariat says...
Too and again, marino, are you of the mind that Smedley Butler’s comment listed above is “horse manure”?
Good evening..
Guy..
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marino says...
Would you direct me to Smedley’s comment? I’ve been researching a problem with my Hitachi flatscreen and I don’t feel like the effort. Thankyou.
Is that his real name? Smedley? Sounds like a cartoon character. Don’t buy a Hitachi bigscreen. There is a class action suit against them and their defective product. I have a 4 yr old $2k paperweight.
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Cybertariat says...
Smedley Butler is quoted within a post which lies twenty-two posts above this very post, marino. Twenty-two posts above.
Persevere..
Guy..
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Cybertariat says...
Actually, you’ll have to access said thread’s hotlink in order to view the quote.
Out!!! :-)
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ritcsilv says...
I don’t believe in black history month, nor do I believe in gay history teaching, I have to in my family that says they are gay one is my own daughter who I love very much she knows my belief that I don’t believe in it and she accepts it as I accept her into my life and still love her.
We have had a lot of coke users in history Like George Washington,Ben Franklin just to name two so we should mention that in our history books too on drug users that have impacted our lives down through history.
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roxi says...
Looks like it’s time for "Homophobia Kills part III, Cybertariat.
Cool. Now the CORPservatives are sayin’ that George Washington did COKE! It is probably true they did a lot of weed, but most likely when they’d burn the fields of hemp in the fall, for the winter. Guess he must’ve been high when he crossed the Delaware….what does INShanity have to say?
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Cagy Wolf says...
Let’s see. you can’t pray in school,christmas holidays is now winterbreak and heaven forbid should you greet someone other than a fellow christian with Merry Christmas you get dirty looks. But its okay to teach “gay History”, goes to show you how ass backward the educational system has become. Catering “Special Interests” is what has ruined this nation and why kids today are confused and dumbed down. How about just teaching history with sidebars at the proper age. But when is too young? My daughter said college. I said high school. So what part of important history gets left out in the exchange? Whether you are gay or bi-sexual it is a choice, it isn’t natural and only happens in nature when there isn’t members of the opposite sex. Its like the cross at the World Trade Center memorial, how can someone find it offensive? Fuck you don’t like church don’t go, don’t like the gay agenda on TV change the channel. Hell I enjoy “American Dad”, the alien is a cross dressing homosexual and is the funniest character on the show. But I don’t kno if anyone ever watched “Morel Orel”, an openly christian god hating show that didn’t have a redeeming virtue. Why is it that while people like me can be tolerent of others rights (choices) they feel they have to attack others like me who disagree with their choice and lifestyle.
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AV Town Crier says...
CW
I tend to agree with the logic. But I also feel that we need to somehow stop the bullying of gays and the violence towards them. Most of the hate comes from the home. It’s a cultural thing. It needs to be changed somehow. The public schools are really our only choice (a lousy one at that—our public schools are a joke).
Do you ever watch Graig Ferguson? His sidekick is a gay robot skeleton (with a mohawk made from sheet-metal). he is hilarious.
And the jokes and the banter is great. And I don’t think it’s offensive to gays. Ferguson even has "Lesbian row’. That’s were the lesbian’s sit up front. Ferguson is actually very respectful of gays. But there is humor in how he deals with it. And it’s NOT offensive to anti-gays. It’s just out and out funny.
NOTE: THIS BLOG HAS GONE TOO LONG. WE NEED A PART 3 IF WE ARE TO CONTINUE.
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Cagy Wolf says...
AVTC I am against bigots and racists, but I am also against those that push their life style and choices on the rest of us. My daughter today gave me a good reason why there shouldn’t be gay scout masters, a friend of the family was molested when he was at a scout camp and walked miles to get home and away from that action. His kids don’t know about it and can’t understand why he won’t let them join the scouts. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, teachers, scout masters who are gay shouldn’t be around to influence and corrupt our youth or for that matter in the church. Its just too easy to push their (gay) agenda and far too tempting. My daughter and I both have gay friends and in fact my daughter’s gay buddy used to pretend he was her boy friend to keep creeps away.I have never watched Graig Ferguson, not sure even what channel it is on. I believe its every person’s right to live as he or she would but not at the expense of other’s rights or beliefs. And yes, there needs to be a part three or several posts as there are too long.
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AV Town Crier says...
I am against people shoving their personal beliefs/agendas down our throats. there’s a time and place for such. This blog is one such place.
Ferguson is on after Letterman.
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Sovereignty Soldier says...
ARACHNOPHOBIA: An abnormal and persistent fear of spiders. Sufferers from arachnophobia experience undue anxiety even though they realize the risk of encountering a spider and being harmed by it is small or nonexistent.
Q) Why is the label “homophobia” applied to those who do not agree with the behavior? It is not like they are AFRAID of homosexuals. In reality they are traditionalists or naturalists, or even hetero solid. Instead there is a label to attempt to denegrate their position. It is a poor choice of definition.
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